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Saturday, January 9th 2016, 8:36am

Gwiniel

Intermediate

Posts: 530

Location: Kuopio, Finland

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keeping away economic pressure for most basic things will also make ppl more happy and thus they will be more healthy; this will take away a lot of unneccesary medical costs
there is a positive domino-effect...
This particular point doesn't always go like that although we all wish it would. Not here in Finland at least. Basic security without reasonable heads up for work life has the opposite spiral in the long run. Some jobless falls into serious alcoholism, drug abusing and criminal behavior and some develop mental issues like severe depression or physical illnesses like diabetes, obesity etc. Physical health start to deteriorate further unless you're the kind of person who loves exercising for the pure joy of it. (It is further accelerated, if the basic survival depends on eating highly processed unhealthy foods and snacks because you can't afford vegetables/fruits etc - this however is greater issue in countries relying heavily on imported fresh foods). At first, it's a relief to have basics secured but when years pass, decades and generations change, there comes the population so used to it, the problems mentioned above will began to escalate, if a person can't get a job.

Inactivity and becoming left out of the society is the number 1 problem among Finn young, which speaks volumes here in terms of crime rates done by under 18 year old persons, alcoholism symptoms as early as in age of 7, physical health being extremely low and obesity growing rapidly, rate of children taken into custody from neglecting parents so drunk they haven't woken up as the police and social workers have come to take the child/children. Then comes teenage suicides, school shootings, school rapes, school bullying. It's a grim picture of today. I don't say it's all because of the basic income but that in a very long scale of time is inevitably a good part of these problems. The root of the problem is in people's own f***ed up thinking and attitude. A person on social support is often considered as "worthless scum" in the eyes of more succeeding or lucky persons. It's not always the choice they made themselves but the pure hopelessness around them that chains them into misery. Notice the important fact here... Tomerant in his posts speaks of real misery - no job = 0 income = hardcore survival to live to next day, yet I speak of misery with basic income that would make a person in Bosnia live almost as a king. People in a country that has had basic income for so many decades, can no longer even grasp the misery such in Bosnia when they look at their own life - yet they are on the brink of suicide when they ought to be happy they have the basics of life secured - always! That's a major downfall of the basic security in a very long term and under global depression.

People are naturally driven as well as brainwashed to wanting nicer stuff and better life quality for themselves and their children. Today that new relief from financial stress in countries that have started to give people the basic income will more likely have a lot of positive effect as it should. But human mind will forget the kindness received and eventually starts wanting more and when there's no option to gain more by working fairly, alternative behavior can emerge in part of the population.

Sorry, was another long post...
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22

Monday, January 11th 2016, 5:16am

very simplified answer (i am aware there are more facts but i will try to only touch the basics):

these neglected children which eventually become criminals drugaddicts etc in later life are often a result of partens not loving them (getting pregnant early, see it like "children ruin my life" and as a matter effect raising then half-hearted or even worse) often, these parents however have at least half-time jobs for a very long time; they hate it because they see it like they are slaves of their children or something - as they are not willing at all to do it some day they stop this and eventually become - due to beeing massively exhausted - addicted to alcohol drugs or w/e

as a sidenote for school, i am not a friend of compulsory schooling, this should be optional too
forcing ppl to do things only makes them angry and aggressive
forcing ppl into something is always the wrong way
in a world where we have computers internet etc the old way of shool is outdated completely

may i ask you, how does it run in finland exactly, are there also most crimes are committed by immigrants like in central europe? if so ( which im relatively sure about), it would be up to the government to sinply "kick" the criminals out of the country, this would solve the problem permanently then because its NOT a problem which originates in the population of finland

now if we see another generation, which will have children and see them was what they are: beeing that deserver to be loved and cared for while NOT beeing ANY burden this might have a gigantic impact
as soon as you love your children and thus found the healthy base for every human beeing - a loving & warm home - the path to everything is open
also, if you have such stability from home, eventual silly comments from "high society" no longer matter for them

about suicide: what makes ppl want to suicide?
most times its either something financial (which even worse leads to whole families beeing eradicated sometimes) or because of - again- missing love
in return, someone who has a stable economical surrounding and a warm, loving family usually will not be willing to kill himself because he will not fall into depression so easy and IF there are good chances someone is willing to pull him out
serious illnesses may also are a rason sometimes but i would expect a huge decrease of illnesses due to complete basical welfare


as for the other thing, getting overweight due to bad nutrition, this is an interesting topic...
while i cant deny that eating "sweet" and "fat" things will in most cases somehow influence your weight over time i also noticed that extreme overweight very often is related to psychical problems too
e. g. i have often seen that those who struggle for love but do not get it in some way try to compensate this by eating
otherwise i have seen perfectly healthy persons eating like 2 while keeping their perfect weight all the time (and they weren even doing any sports)
for those which become fat while not beeing affected by any psychical problemsi think they will find some physical excercise they like for sure... without working full time there is plenty of time to strenghten your body while still having time for all the other things :love:

in the end, if everything is rachable and possbile for everyone who is WILLING without undergoing any compulsions, there is no longer any real problem as everyone is from now on TRULY the smith of his own luck
(which brings us back to the comprehension of the F2P model in this game, where also the basics are secured - no paywall, gold/BC exchange - while everything else is just up to the player and even those who dont $ at all can reach everything due to willpower :))

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER" (Jan 11th 2016, 5:29am)


23

Monday, January 11th 2016, 1:26pm

Gwiniel

Intermediate

Posts: 530

Location: Kuopio, Finland

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may i ask you, how does it run in finland exactly, are there also most crimes are committed by immigrants like in central europe? if so ( which im relatively sure about), it would be up to the government to sinply "kick" the criminals out of the country, this would solve the problem permanently then because its NOT a problem which originates in the population of finland
Going to only address this matter as I don't want to make another wall of text. Going to respect your other opinions although I can't fully agree with them. Now this matter... in finland the crimes are about 70/30 (finns/immigrants or asylum seekers). Now it has gone to 60/40 as the amount of last year's asylum seeker rush from europe and middle east). Crimes such as rapes, pick-pocketing and small thefts are typically done by immigrants/asylum seeker. Crimes like stabbing, murder, gang activity, shootings, drug abuse + growing and distributing, bullying, beating, group fights etc are commonly done by finns (even before immigrants). Drug related criminal activity is a mix of finns and foreigners - organised cells in various countries controlled by some bigger organization.

It only looks like 10/90 as crimes done by immigrants/asylum seekers hit the news with 100% certainly and stay hot for weeks while crimes done by fellow finns are hush hushed now that the whole world is upset by fairly resent terrorist attacks and massive amount of asylum seeker and illegal immigrants through europe. Finland's weather and remoteness has been a long time a big turn away factor among people from warmer climates - they hate our winters :) Only the most "bravest" have "settled in" here. Even now a lot of asylum seekers have spoken in media of leaving from finland both due climate and the tightened benefit rules towards them. Also racism has sky rocketed here (which is very bad). Finns have always been very racist in general - not only open hate but silent discrimination, ignorance and general coldness towards foreigners. We are slowly warming to other nationalities but this sudden rush with lot of economical stress made racist flares worse.

Sigh.. another wall QQ
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24

Wednesday, January 20th 2016, 6:03am

Interesting...All I know is that whenever I see Gwiniel's avatar, a wall of text comes right after.

25

Wednesday, January 20th 2016, 8:50am

Gwiniel

Intermediate

Posts: 530

Location: Kuopio, Finland

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Always :P
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