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1

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 3:31pm

Compass / Heroics without a healer?!

Back in old times we needed a Tank + a healer + 4x dps at XAES , lvl 40 heroics.
Tank role was to hold the agro and keep the received dmg low. Low enough which the healer can heal it.
Healer role was to heal the tank and when the dps received aoe dmg than heal a bit.
DPS role it was to wait the tank to get agro and than do some dmg and keep away from ads, boss directed damage.

Time has elapsed, content has changed a bit.

I can see "Defender" aspect, which should defend somebody...maybe the party?!
I see the "Assault" and Support.

The nice theory is to be over geared and over runed, than it doesn't need anything just a 13/13 runes and 32500GS will make the tank + dps role in 103% compass.
But how about a "normal" party, which play carefully?
Take the 109% from Rihat.
And thake the max 89% drops from Allods: 8 slots, if Icount the 2h as 2 slot.
Now it should be able to do 1-2 bosses at the 103% with "normal" rune ( around 8/9) ans with "normal" patronage ( 4 ) .
Maybe after each pack your wait for important tear skills, but in my ippinion it could be done.

Instead in this days what I see?
- we need a tank, prefeable runes with 12, and 31k GS, which absolutly not needs any drop anymore from 103%.
- than we need a supp, to make us Chuck Norris: defence buff and offiensive buff.
- we don't need healer, because we are 5x Chuck Norris here already.

Than it happens to fall the tank, because he doesn't have 12 rune, just 9 and not 31k gs, just 29k.
Than it falls the dps too and the wipe is happent.
4x times and we left the isle with nothing.
Altoght many times I see Healer, Summy, Warder they don't want to switch to heals!
The party don't want a healer!
They prefer to die and wipe the party, but "not need a heler"

Why, please explain to me!

2

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 4:24pm

Aionwen

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Posts: 506

Location: Berlin

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as you anwserd by yourself allready: they want to be chuck norris

for teeniebrains this is like kokain and they dont have to think about there tiny wieners... and its much more easier for "devs" to sell "content" to those kind of "brain"

me guess part of this situation is the complexity of integrating heal in a hacknslay game former fantasygame. when HP dont increase as much as firepower u have the paradox that a heal must be allways able to outheal all the damage if good played coz getting damage nonlethal or in other kind "dangerous" woulndt be really trilly or in better words all naabs would get loot all the time and that cannot be in interest of devs as u can imagine BUT that leads to the problem that u have a rollmodel with extraordinary survivability even with low gear like before this horrible classchanges with its aspectshit that destroyed this beloved game and peeps spending there money to get better runes shurely and understandable dont like to chew on granit by any lowgeard heal no matter what skill.
beside this there was always the problem that devs werent able to create lootable content for heals beside groupactivity so evry1 plays usualy dd to do its dailys and in a pay to play and win game like allods where you have to pay for evry fart (mercs that can tank or heal, third skilltree, reskill etcpp) most peeps arent motivated to play heal and so heals or good heals are rare and that isnt very good for a groupactivitybased game, shouting and waiting for heal and be depend on heal was and still is frustrating.
eg. in gw2 they killed the holy trinity of tankhealdd and had success.
further in healing is no competition like in dding so the circle to the tiny wieners is closed, its just all about the tiny wieners...
PLS make Tekians playable race. fix shipcanons!

3

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 6:43pm

Lots of rune talk here, looks like a p2p is your solution :)

Aside of the advertising;
healers became irrelevant. Why? Effiency.
It's simply faster to run 4x dps and a supp with tank, because it's possible.
I don't know about the CS reqs for f2p to make it happen but its for whoever on p2p.
Healers are only on certain bosses and pvp.
Exploring is half the fun!

4

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 6:52pm

yep thay need nerf or delete bloodlost to make healers more playable

or delete concentration

5

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 7:54pm

Aionwen

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for honest, me realy hate this vampiric bloodlustshit, its totally bullshit for a fantasygame, imagine this would happen in fortnite or counterstrike or LoL ... nonsense at all, but devs have there reasons as i mentioned, the customers are just to dump, lazy and dismotivated to play as heal or depend there game on heal and this point is ok.

same with concentration but what to do, there are to less heals in game and the only solution is to make heal obsolete, so its ok too.

and for honest i dont want othe rplayers to depend on heal

before supportnerf i tryed engi and it was awesome how fast and secure the runs was especially in comparison with my heal. engishields, buffs and protection was way better then fullhealheals...

whats definitly not ok is when in actuell druidpmb is said that 1 single fucking noobopscout will kill a grown up fullhealdruid alone by itself something is wrong with the understanding of fullheal and this changes are only explainable by merchandising, selling more headshots to fortniteaggrokiddies, give the mob what the mob want.

we have to understand this is no entertainmentproduct to entertain you or me, its just a product to generate money and if the targetgroup changes from fantasy to headshotaddicted then money rules... sad but
PLS make Tekians playable race. fix shipcanons!

6

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 9:23pm

Like I said:
The tank wasn't a Chuck Norris.
He hadn't 13 runes ( just 9/11)
He hadn't full swiftness stats, ( but dps)
He wasn't trained to be tank, (just picked a random build)

Sometimes it isn't anybody who could switch to heals.
But in this case was a Healer class and a Warden.

Wipe after wipe after wipe nobody wanted to switch from Healer dps to Heals or Warden dps to Heals.
All of they: tank, possible heals, and oher party memers prefered to watch the tank falling after eack pack.

Has nothing to do with Bloodlust and Concentrate, because not the dps fall first, but the tank.

Simply I don't understand why do not bring a healer, if your tank is sit.
Just because the Legends plays as Chuck Norris, doesn't means this tank ( or I ) must be and we are not allowed a healer.

I did a try with Paladin:
if you are geared and runed enough you can hold the damage and play with barriers and if you receive enugh heals from spells.
BUT IF YOU ARE NOT ENOUGH GEARED ( just 28500 GS for example - Ihave more) it is impossible to tank, since withot heals you receive to much dmg than you could heal yourself.

On that case ( when tank not geared , overgeared) why the Hell not bring a healer?!

7

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 11:13pm

well yeh it's up to you, evryone have diferent experience, my pt got good tank, also good dps, so thay can heal up from bloodlost in 1-2s to full

we complited lv 25 heroic witchout healer last patch

no one told it's not alowed, rather not effective if your good team


but becose tank is inaf tanky, and me as engi sup inaf well, we can replace 1 healer for dps, so boss die more faster, and we can do less tactics cuz of that (cuz boss die like in 1m insted of 3-4m)

As becose druid was before healer, and now is one of top dps class, he not lost job, he just adapted to diferent role

here you have 26k gear pala tanking 25lv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGblN_HMa8Y

if he needed heal, summoner or druid used his heal skill, and puted aegis+other shield

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Noah1" (Nov 20th 2019, 11:35pm)


8

Wednesday, November 20th 2019, 11:23pm

Rayofsshadow

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I mean if u have leggy gear 90/90 from prev sector and droppables (which CAN drop above 90/90 not max 89% as u think) all this is easy to get and then add the almost free lvl 888 888 runes u should be able to tank most stuff, with a knowledge of ur class ofc, dont expect to know the class after 1 day playing.
I am PioPico

9

Thursday, November 21st 2019, 1:47am

They prefer to die and wipe the party, but "not need a heler"

Why, please explain to me!

because it is faster with tank/supp/ 4dps
offheals are good enough for a good party (good means which knows what to do)
why waste time with 1 dps less?

i mostly do "easy astral"
often i see players calling for fast and efficient runs of easy astral (most farm dust i guess)
i love to party with them as they usually are the type of player which just rushes trough the content, does not talk except "again" and revive you instant after you die

these parties consist usually of 6 dps with a lot of bloodlust and concentration and enemies die before they can properly attack
why would we take a healer or tank? :S

also every player can go "dps" state anyway and every common player has at least a 2nd skilltree+

sounds like you just had a bad party. solution would be proper mercs which can do hard astral. i wish for that long time. until then, your only option is to find a proper party or you screw the hard astral :P

10

Thursday, November 21st 2019, 4:00am

In the runs I went to do compass as a tank "I was undergeared, level 8 rune in def" the damage I got was too much for a healer to heal, if I'd miss 2 hits from the battle wound it would be a wipe for my team, anyone other than the tank will be one-shotted. Compass is not related to "CS and GS" it's more to methodology and experience, the times we got wipe were either mistake on my part or the other party member part.
and you'd think "well if you had full 13 and higher gs you'd not get that much damage" which is totally wrong a scout tank with full cs does like 2 or 3 times the damage that a non cs scout tank can deal, but runs same mechanics as the scout with 0 cs and low gear, you may have special stat problem but not on leggy gear, if you find going for new fable gear hard just get the leggy gear and make it 100% instead of 90%.
Titanium
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11

Thursday, November 21st 2019, 6:37pm

So many ppl answering... and everybody missing question.
Translating: why so many ppl is so stupid to not adapt setup to pt strength? Why healing class doesn't want to switch to heals if pt is to weak to kill anything before tank die?

Main question wasn't why ppl prefer some pt setup but why they stick to it regardless of circumstances and can't complete anything because it is not suited for this pt strength?

12

Thursday, November 21st 2019, 7:41pm

So many ppl answering... and everybody missing question.
Translating: why so many ppl is so stupid to not adapt setup to pt strength? Why healing class doesn't want to switch to heals if pt is to weak to kill anything before tank die?

Main question wasn't why ppl prefer some pt setup but why they stick to it regardless of circumstances and can't complete anything because it is not suited for this pt strength?
Exactly!

When you see tank fail, and other fail and wipe after wipe, why are you stupid as do not let / force a dps to become heal and save the party?!
- yeah, because we could be chuck norris, be we aren't

13

Thursday, November 21st 2019, 11:21pm

Vickie Lynn

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Well, you said just before that the tank had a random build (new to tanking). The fact is that even with the best healers you could have, a tank that never tanked before would die. It is not a matter of runes / gear / having a build / healer etc, if the tank doesn t master his rotation, it fails for sure.
Moreover, forcing the warden, summy or cleric to heal would lead to the sale result, because if they refuse to heal it is surely because they never did that and so don t even have a build for it.
Oh and one more thîng, be sure to have a party in which there is enough controls and long term cc’s. They are crucial for many packs.
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14

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 12:32am

Just to clarify: usually not Iam the tank in that party.



There it is the Super Overgeared party, the 5x Chuck Norris + 1 tank.

Again and again:
Tank and all party member prefered to:
- watch the tank until die slowly
- watch the tank has he can't heal and receive to much dmg
- nobody wanted to hear about getting a healer.

Why, since "not need a healer"

Wipe after wipe: not need a healer. Not need because it is slow.
Yes it is faster a wipe...

Probably I won't go with this party, but in others are the same, maybe the tank has more experience / gear.
( Not I was the tank! - again)

15

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 7:10am

So many ppl answering... and everybody missing question.
Translating: why so many ppl is so stupid to not adapt setup to pt strength? Why healing class doesn't want to switch to heals if pt is to weak to kill anything before tank die?
This is a major problem in the community most of the player base are stubborn and only play one role, take OBS que for example, even PMB event the majority of the builds were just dps.
When you see tank fail, and other fail and wipe after wipe, why are you stupid as do not let / force a dps to become heal and save the party?!
- yeah, because we could be chuck norris, be we aren't
from the parameters you've shared I think your whole party have major build/stats Issue even with level 8 runes and no pat 5, no... even in p2p you should be able to do more damage output than this, also like Vicky said, each one of your party should take the class CC which lasts for 45 seconds and take it nice and slow 1 by 1. and also like I said if the party already have bad DPS parameters don't expect the healing to be any better, or how that healer will out heal that enormous damage that the tank is taking.
Titanium
Scout/League/F2P



Bring It On! Cuz I'm Just Gonna Grow Up In The Battle HEY !!


Timed Artifacts: The hidden value
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16

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 7:25am

Another thing I'd like to add, is trying to find a permanent party, even if they are bad at the start, even if they have low CS and low runes, as long as they are willing to learn and adapt you will find it much more easier to stay with those that being with randoms. And later on you can with the same party participate in stuff like dominion and astral.




As an example: I myself at a time had my old friends play with me at the time when astral dropped gear each run, most casuals couldn't even finish a run in S5*, and asked people to carry them to get the gear, -which me and my friends were doing-. I think at that time only 2 of us had pat 5 runes were like 7, cs was mediocre even less than the free stuff you can get now, but each one of us adapted to his role and did his best, it was hard at the start then step by step we managed to do it without much effort.
Titanium
Scout/League/F2P



Bring It On! Cuz I'm Just Gonna Grow Up In The Battle HEY !!


Timed Artifacts: The hidden value
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17

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 9:35am

find a permanent party, even if they are bad at the start, even if they have low CS and low runes, as long as they are willing to learn and adapt
Hail & Preach!

18

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 10:18am

if the party already have bad DPS parameters don't expect the healing to be any better, or how that healer will out heal that enormous damage that the tank is taking.
Just a tiny heal to keep that tank a bit longer alive could make it - but NO : we don't need healer!!!

19

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 11:21am

I understand how frustrating is to see ppl who could help refusing to help for unknown reasons but if you look around.
Nowadays if you need tank heal for easy obs they wont que even tho they dont need perform it but instead just dps.
Instead when finally they come these noobs use tank aspect or heal while boss doesnt deal any damage so they are worthless and prolong already so long fight.
Even when you tell them they could just que but use dps aspect at same time they wont switch and refuse to listen anything.

Reasons for this are simple, game is played by stupids who either think if they cast heals and dont heal they are awesome or if they tank boss doing 50dmg to their 200k hp they are being "good tank".
However if they hear heroic they imagine how much mobs hit there for like 100k-1m and they are afraid of having that responsibility for possibly wiping group so even if they have heal aspect they wont use it.
Current meta is tank+supp+dps because its faster to kill enemy and during this shorter time tank is expected to survive and take less damage while group has less time to make more mistakes and get wiped.
Tank dont need highest cashop to survive without healer, gearscore+stats make greatest difference now.
If he has enough gear+stats+good build+can perform correct rotation he should survive most packs.
Also group needs long cc on each mobs in packs to reduce too much incoming dmg in same time.
Other dpses have to survive from bloodlust which is considered now must and overpowered to keep you healed instead of healer.
Besides this you may see tank hp only as bar but need understand he has 200k+ hp and he gets hit in barrier for that even more.
Even if some of those random healers heal him they can only do 10k-50k heal so they cannot keep him alive for almost any longer.
They are afraid of that and will never take responsibility cause then they would look bad like its their fault so its easier to just let tank die over their pride.
PunisherSy
"find a permanent party, even if they are bad at the start, even if they
have low CS and low runes, as long as they are willing to learn and
adapt"
-very true
ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER
"because it is faster with tank/supp/ 4dps"
"offheals are good enough for a good party (good means which knows what to do)"
"i love to party with them as they usually are the type of player which just rushes trough the content"
"why would WE take a healer or tank"
"sounds like you just had a bad party."
-never done any heroic
-dies first and only one every easy astral or obs
-talks advices

20

Friday, November 22nd 2019, 11:56am

"healers heal him they can only do 10k-50k heal"


10k wouldn't be enogh, but around 30k it would save the party.


As many advised I will try to find a few ppl, who is interested in Heroics.


Very probably I should give up that party and find others, maybe other guild or other sever! :)


Thanks

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