Allods Online Forum

Alıntı sahibi "lublur"

why are you so afraid of using "p2win" expression?

These are not the droids you're looking for

In other words, you're addressing the wrong person. I know this f2p game is really p2w and I have never had a problem saying it. My post was aimed at the same group you thought you were talking to .

Have a read of my previous posts and you may see the context of what I am saying.

Cheers!

I'm honestly disappointed. You folks would tell people it cost tons of money further discouraging possible players to come back and enjoy the game with us. But then it's the very same folks that set and complain that the game is dead and not enough folks on the server or a good population. The amount of irony is just too dang high! Lol

Alıntı sahibi "Fraust"

I'm honestly disappointed. You folks would tell people it cost tons of money further discouraging possible players to come back and enjoy the game with us. But then it's the very same folks that set and complain that the game is dead and not enough folks on the server or a good population. The amount of irony is just too dang high! Lol

Its really selfish!

For god's sake Fraust, there is no even a GM or proper payment system in this server and u really want us to encourage ppl to spending money and wasting time for this game?

Alıntı sahibi "Elvespresley"

Its really selfish!

For god's sake Fraust, there is no even a GM or proper payment system in this server and u really want us to encourage ppl to spending money and wasting time for this game?

Proper payment system? Seems to work fine for me. A GM? I don't exactly need someone to hold my hand to play the game as I'm sure many others don't either. And spending money? I never mentioned that at all. Maybe it'd be best if you'd stop considering this game something you have to pay for in order to enjoy? Ah, but that's another story for another time.

All I'm saying is with so much negativity, there is no hope. Encourage everyone to do what they want, not what you feel is best. That my friend, is selfish.

Good day to you.

being selfish is not a bad thing. if everyone is selfish, then all ppl are fine

Alıntı

I think a few people here have not heard of a "skinner box" when it comes to gaming psychology.

The game is p2* ( * = whatever qualifier you use to justify the amount of money you spend). Doesn't matter how you qualify it, you will have pay eventually.

Read this. It's funny and informative

Very interesting, especially this:

"Now, there's no way they can create enough exploration or story to keep you playing for thousands of hours, so they had to change the mechanics of the game, so players would instead keep doing the same actions over and over and over, whether they liked it or not. So game developers turned to Skinner's techniques.

This is a big source of controversy in the world of game design right now. Braid creator Jonathan Blow said Skinnerian game mechanics are a form of "exploitation." It's not that these games can't be fun. But they're designed to keep gamers subscribing during the periods when it's not fun, locking them into a repetitive slog using Skinner's manipulative system of carefully scheduled rewards."

That's EXACTLY how the gearing system in Allods is designed, a countless repetitive grinding mechanism (without enough source of gold of course).

Imagine that to get a complete upgrade from blue -> epic it's >600g and 5,75% per upgrade, for epic -> legend it's (if i'm not not wrong) >800g and 2-3% per upgrade, and at this rate it must be >1000g and 1-2% per upgrade for leg -> myth (100k gold for a complete upgrade of one gear).

At this point, this game mechanism is leading to an overdose and it's perfectly understandable that people give up and leave the game. It's not even a matter of what you pay or not, this game has just turned into an addictive boring logic without the fun.

The game is what you make of it. You alone control the experience you get from playing it. I honestly haven't seen a game that has a relatively easy upgrading system. You folks are blowing this way out of proportion. Its basic number crunching. Nothing is perfect and thus, enhancements can always be made. Patience however, will determine whether you experience those changes.

At any rate, I believe several of us have answer the OP's question and most of this debate is highly off-topic.

Good luck my friends, Happy Hunting!~

Alıntı sahibi "Tonal"

Very interesting, especially this:

And that's not the best part. Have a good read of the 3rd point on the 2nd page. You may see some more similarities with the way the allods model is run. And pay attention to how they describe it.

Alıntı sahibi "Tonal"

Very interesting, especially this:

"Now, there's no way they can create enough exploration or story to keep you playing for thousands of hours, so they had to change the mechanics of the game, so players would instead keep doing the same actions over and over and over, whether they liked it or not. So game developers turned to Skinner's techniques.

This is a big source of controversy in the world of game design right now. Braid creator Jonathan Blow said Skinnerian game mechanics are a form of "exploitation." It's not that these games can't be fun. But they're designed to keep gamers subscribing during the periods when it's not fun, locking them into a repetitive slog using Skinner's manipulative system of carefully scheduled rewards."

I don't know if I should hate or love you for linking this. 200th post... might consider it being my last actually. I feel like my head's about to explode AaaaaaaaaaaAaaaaAaa.

Alıntı

By Xaraman
And that's not the best part. Have a good read of the 3rd point on the 2nd page. You may see some more similarities with the way the allods model is run. And pay attention to how they describe it.

This is the exact description of Strongbox gambling system, with the lottery, rewards... etc, which means our devs know perfectly what they're doing, which also means that any complain about these mechanism is absolutely useless. It's not even a matter of server (russian players are in the same position of us), it's just that everything is... working as intended.

That said, there might be a limit to the application of the skinner box principles: when rewards are too little and/or repetitive tasks are becoming too... repetitve, people tend to cumulate lassitude and getting sick of the game.

When sickness exceed addiction, people reach a breaking point and quit the game. Some of these who have already quit have explained it quite well in this topic.

PS: Sorry for your head Dala , maybe time to escape from the skinner box?

I don't see the issue here on this Skinner box stuff. Mmorpgs have been setup in methods similar or even exact match to your skinner thing. It's just how it works. Repeats and events are typical to carry over to next expansion. Been this way for many years now.

Alıntı sahibi "Tonal"

Alıntı

I think a few people here have not heard of a "skinner box" when it comes to gaming psychology.

The game is p2* ( * = whatever qualifier you use to justify the amount of money you spend). Doesn't matter how you qualify it, you will have pay eventually.

Read this. It's funny and informative

Very interesting, especially this:

"Now, there's no way they can create enough exploration or story to keep you playing for thousands of hours, so they had to change the mechanics of the game, so players would instead keep doing the same actions over and over and over, whether they liked it or not. So game developers turned to Skinner's techniques.

This is a big source of controversy in the world of game design right now. Braid creator Jonathan Blow said Skinnerian game mechanics are a form of "exploitation." It's not that these games can't be fun. But they're designed to keep gamers subscribing during the periods when it's not fun, locking them into a repetitive slog using Skinner's manipulative system of carefully scheduled rewards."

That's EXACTLY how the gearing system in Allods is designed, a countless repetitive grinding mechanism (without enough source of gold of course).

Imagine that to get a complete upgrade from blue -> epic it's >600g and 5,75% per upgrade, for epic -> legend it's (if i'm not not wrong) >800g and 2-3% per upgrade, and at this rate it must be >1000g and 1-2% per upgrade for leg -> myth (100k gold for a complete upgrade of one gear).

At this point, this game mechanism is leading to an overdose and it's perfectly understandable that people give up and leave the game. It's not even a matter of what you pay or not, this game has just turned into an addictive boring logic without the fun.

the way of gearing IS silly, its extremely silly

i am not willing to gear more than a certain cap

for example with last patch; 51 gear and glyphs:
gearing from 51blue to 51 orange was OK and fun, while gearing to teal and teal 2 was not. so i said "**** on it" and stayed with orange gear (except my weapon, i got it to teal for the sake of more dmg)
glyphs were the same: upgrading from green to blue was OK, but getting glyphs higher than blue was a pain and no fun at all. thus i decided i will only get my weapon to purple and stop gearing then

ocf there were (hardcore) players which had better gear and were superior to me because of that... but i honestly did not care at all, i had great fun and my gear was good enough for my purposes

so think twice before gearing like a maniac, and maybe consider to stop gearing up after a while

btw when 5.0 arrived and new gear came, i was glad i did not gear behind a certain point. i gained much lulz when i saw how many players which discussed with me complained because their hard earned gear was worthless
glyphs became even more worthless since the "glyph-bonus" is gone

so upgrading glyphs to teal is already questionable while upgrading them to teal 2 is almost useless and a waste of resources

Alıntı sahibi "Fraust"

I don't see the issue here on this Skinner box stuff. Mmorpgs have been setup in methods similar or even exact match to your skinner thing. It's just how it works. Repeats and events are typical to carry over to next expansion. Been this way for many years now.

You're correct,

All MMOs have this type of mechanic built in to the game. After all, it is what keeps people playing. The issue I have with it is the level that mail.ru have taken it to and how blatant they are about it. When they added the most strongboxes opened reward it just made the system rife for people to throw hundreds, maybe even thousands of Euro on 1 in game item. Just so they could then win other in game prizes. And don't talk to me about upgrades; which for most players forces you to farm like a drone or pay Euro for gold.

I've said it before on another thread about strongboxes and prophetic cards. It is my opinion that no one should pay over €150 for any in game item. But the way the last strongboxes dropped, you had to pay nearly twice that to guarantee the drop.

Just remember what you're paying for: Nothing! . But, to each their own. If you want to spend that sort of money or time on the game, then more power to you. Its just it seems that a lot of players have had enough and are putting their foot down.

Cheers!

Alıntı sahibi "Xaraman"

You're correct,

All MMOs have this type of mechanic built in to the game. After all, it is what keeps people playing. The issue I have with it is the level that mail.ru have taken it to and how blatant they are about it. When they added the most strongboxes opened reward it just made the system rife for people to throw hundreds, maybe even thousands of Euro on 1 in game item. Just so they could then win other in game prizes. And don't talk to me about upgrades; which for most players forces you to farm like a drone or pay Euro for gold.

I've said it before on another thread about strongboxes and prophetic cards. It is my opinion that no one should pay over €150 for any in game item. But the way the last strongboxes dropped, you had to pay nearly twice that to guarantee the drop.

Just remember what you're paying for: Nothing! . But, to each their own. If you want to spend that sort of money or time on the game, then more power to you. Its just it seems that a lot of players have had enough and are putting their foot down.

Cheers!

Thank you.

How have they done it so blatantly? I haven't been able to see the severity of this change. Its a mere inconvenience. Just get over it and get it done. As I said in another thread, time wasted here could be used in-game to further upgrade your gear. As far as the cards and the strongboxes they are a gamble. You as well as everyone else knew the chances of getting the desired item are very slim. Its a random chance game. You cant consider the game pay to win because of a player's crappy luck. You bring that experience onto yourselves.

There are many different players that have proved to be very powerful without investing real money into this game. And as for the players that have invested real money into this game chose to do this. They were not forced to do so. The game did not hinder their progress. Thus proving the fact that this game is what YOU make of it. You can make it a pay to win game, but that is your experience and yours alone. Simply put.

But really, they are hard at work to refine the upgrading system. It simply takes time. Check out www.allodsoracle.com They have all kinds of different posts with upcoming information on the post.

Good luck and Happy Hunting!

Alıntı sahibi "Fraust"

You cant consider the game pay to win because of a player's crappy luck

But, that's the problem. It's not luck. It's pure statistics. Statistics designed to keep people right clicking that strongbox. You can't really argue with that .

Alıntı

You can make it a pay to win game, but that is your experience and yours alone. Simply put.

This is sort of my point. Up until recently, the majority of peoples experience with this game is that it could be completely free to play (through farming/time spent). This opinion is considerably reducing due to recent mechanics in the game. Far less people can now play this game completely for free. Therefore it is becoming slightly more p2w.

Cheers!

Alıntı sahibi "Xaraman"

But, that's the problem. It's not luck. It's pure statistics. Statistics designed to keep people right clicking that strongbox. You can't really argue with that .



This is sort of my point. Up until recently, the majority of peoples experience with this game is that it could be completely free to play (through farming/time spent). This opinion is considerably reducing due to recent mechanics in the game. Far less people can now play this game completely for free. Therefore it is becoming slightly more p2w.

Cheers!

Yeah, I agree with you on that. But there isn't anyway we can prove that unfortunately.

I agree with this too, but only to a certain extent. There are methods are this and the original ways of being completely free to play are still there, just a bit more difficult to pull off.

Thank you for understanding though. And I love your input. I typically get rude comments or insults rather than legit and kind opinions.

FAITH IN HUMANITY RESTORED! lol.

i love the game but sure its pay2win i have no problem investing time in farming and stuff but there are always little ******** who spend there whole incoming for this game and run around with lvl 13 runes and stuff.. if you starting a new char you cant catch up to that...

This game is worth playing.

It has a very active and friendly community, lots of moderators that can always help you whit any question, and lots of content.

Also is completely free to play, you can achieve everything in game whiteout spending 1 cent, but requires some effort.

You can pay to get some boosts, but you can pretty much they are not needed.

You should join allods, and bring all your friends whit you

Alıntı sahibi "Oshi"

You should join allods, and bring all your friends whit you

If you have friends to bring - join the p2p server. It's core principles are very solid and in the spirit of a true MMO. Moreover, with every new "cashgrab" move on the f2p, it gets even better in comparison.

After playing on the p2p server I simply could not ever get back to f2p, no matter how hard I tried.

Asking in foruns if it is worth or not to come back to the game (IMHO) maybe it's not the best place to look for a good answer.

It depends a lot on:

- Do you want to be casual player or endgame top guild player
- Are you PVE or PVP oriented
- Do you want to play for free or do you want to invest real money in game
- f2p server, or p2p server

Some combinations don't work with this game:
- PVP for casual player, without time or real money spending.
- Endgame content (raids, dominion...) without a "strong" guild.

Anyway, you should try out yourself and take your own conclusions.

Avo