Allods Online Forum

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

No no.. Now listen mister! (I like saying that XD) Im not a full face-tanking paly, I'm quit the opposite, Im pretty fast on my reactions, I hardly never get cought up in circles on ground etc.. lol Im actually the person to call others to move on TS3...
And as I said my tenacity is 60 for s3 (not 80). And even so with all that tenacity Im usualy between the top 3 at the DPS meter, many times the top (Determination rocks :thumbup:

).

From my talks to other awesome tanks the tenacity they use is pretty close to it..
And for any beginner tank out there to read my guide, its not so complicated to get 60+ tenacity (yes, without the high cash shop stuff), and even if it means less damage, tank's job is not to be top DPS (although ofc its nice), but to stay alive. and if you get red wound your healer most definitely will have trouble to keep you alive.

Look, I accept what you say, I believe you that you can tank with half my tenacity. But this is the numbers I use after a lot of trial, when I went lower than that i got too high wound. when I progress with gear i'll drop that number. And you can trust me movement or skills are not a problem with me

F2P and P2P are just not the same. Ofc there must be some adjustment to cover up for lack of cash shop.

I will finish by advising any person to read this guide not to follow my instructions like a copycat, but to also learn by trial and error, test new things, keep learning all the time, and adjust things to your own play style!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "A Knife" (Apr 11th 2015, 1:52am)

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23

Friday, April 10th 2015, 5:00pm

dragonblue14

Beginner

Posts: 10

Quoted from "Ringelblume"

I try to explain again ... P2P Astral = the same = F2P Astral

That's a pretty bold statement to make.

Quoted from "Ringelblume"

Now I will try again to explain ... F2P = more stats, because of cash shop

True but difficulty is adjusted in p2p server because of this reason.

Quoted from "Ringelblume"

So if we can handle s3 with nearly half of your tenacity (thats not easy) then it shows that you are a full face-tanking-paly. (with 80 tena O_o)

You cannot speak for A Knife, how can you just assume 'full face tank'. Have you thought about how long fights last if you wind up having sufficient dps with a low runed party or someone accidentally dying mid fight?

Quoted from "Ringelblume"

I know Ace from F2P. I can tell you that he isnt that good tank. He can play DPS by pressing 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 but thats it.

Uncalled for comment. Keep these opinions to yourself.

On a side note, I think you two are confusing glyph qualities. I think A Knife wrote this in terms (probably began writting the guide with) lvl 60 fabled glyphs instead of lvl 66 green/blue glyphs.

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24

Friday, April 10th 2015, 5:56pm

Trainee

You can facetank and avoid circles. facetanking doesn't mean you yolo up your det from random boss circles or debuffs. Facetanking means that you don't take advantage of terrain, boss mechanics and boss movement AI. There are few s3 bosses that you can tank without taking almost any damage, but you need to think outside the box. :^)

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25

Friday, April 10th 2015, 9:29pm

Bluescarlet

Professional

Posts: 971

if its working for them why not let them play like this

i mean s3 atm is like doing kde mobs ;D iam as a dps try to get in nearly every boss aoe so i get deter and kill the boss faster so i would do it even more as a tank who has shitloads of deter ;D but well i was always running 50+ deter even last patch cuz i just think getting wounds is like insulting your healer and i dont want to insult em

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26

Friday, April 10th 2015, 10:12pm

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

Quoted from "Bluescarlet"

if its working for them why not let them play like this i mean s3 atm is like doing kde mobs ;D iam as a dps try to get in nearly every boss aoe so i get deter and kill the boss faster so i would do it even more as a tank who has shitloads of deter ;D but well i was always running 50+ deter even last patch cuz i just think getting wounds is like insulting your healer and i dont want to insult em

Yeah as a DPS going into weird stuff on the floor to get some determination boost is ok as long as you can stay alive, as a tank is not needed cuz we are anyway taking damage and our determination bar is always 80%+..
And yeah as i said before we do not want to get too much wound, we do not want to piss off our healers, a healer is a tank's best friend (other than his cat ofc)

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27

Friday, April 10th 2015, 10:12pm

Trainee

Ofc you can keep doing what works for you. But i assume these PMBs are for new players. As a new player you dont have 60's fable glyphs or CS stuff. In a guide you want to teach new player to get maximum out of the small resources that they have. 60 Tenacity is just a stupid joke for a new player.

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28

Friday, April 10th 2015, 10:20pm

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

Quoted from "Gibe"

Ofc you can keep doing what works for you. But i assume these PMBs are for new players. As a new player you dont have 60's fable glyphs or CS stuff. In a guide you want to teach new player to get maximum out of the small resources that they have. 60 Tenacity is just a stupid joke for a new player.

Frankly, a new player with low resources should not do s3 but focus on s2 (in which case even 20 tenacity will do as I specified). If a new player does want to go s3 with HH (in which case no need to maximize stats because a not full run is acceptable), or without HH, this player can go 60 Tenacity without any difficulty, even if it cost on offensive stats.
What will actually be sad is if a new player with low gear goes to S3 with 40~ Tenacity and ending up wiping his party because he keeps getting wound and the healer cant keep up (yup it happens). That is exactly why i keep insisting on this point. I've been doing almost only s3 runs, so I know

It is Very simple:
The lower your gear is> the higher damage you will take>the more tenacity you need to avoid getting wound.

and I will state this again:
This is only correct for F2P server. On P2P server mobs difficulty is adjusted therefore less tenacity is needed. But I cant give stats numbers for P2P cuz I dont play there :thumbsup:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "A Knife" (Apr 10th 2015, 10:30pm)

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29

Friday, April 10th 2015, 10:32pm

Trainee

Im talking about the exact same gear but 0 CS related items.

In p2p you only get a buff in raids. You dont get anything in astral.

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30

Saturday, April 11th 2015, 7:59am

Ringelblume

Intermediate

Posts: 188

Location: Pappkarton, in der Gosse 7

Occupation: Autodieb

thats what i try to explain ... even 60 tenacity is rlly rlly hard to reach ... even on f2p...
you have to farm tons of gold or pay gold to put stats on tena ... and i think new player want 66 gear too.

again p2p ... there ppl want 66 gear too, so they try to collect hearts ... even in s2 / or by buying them with coins ...

60 - 80 tena = too high. (for new player)

@ Dragonblue ...

we have still fucking same astral.... same difficult ... and 80 tena = for sure facetanking

Мелоетта(Paladin) /Милоетта (Mage)
Server: Russian P2P
Fraction: League

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ringelblume" (Apr 11th 2015, 8:19am)

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31

Saturday, April 11th 2015, 9:41am

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

s2- alot easier, a lot faster, drop same amount of upgrades as s3, and 65 upgrades give more progress than 65 upgrades (5.5% vs. 4.9%)
farming hearts to enchant the gear is not that hard if you got the time.
So if this was guide to astral 6.0 I would recommend new players (and old) to focus that for gearing up towards blues.

50-80 tenacity is totally doable for new player on F2P by using conclave/elixir/koe food/or just distributing stats (most of those doesn't exist in P2P)

The fact is, you and Gibe are playing on P2P server, I played on F2P actively this entire patch.

high tenacity does not mean youre facetanking, its simply a must on our server if you have gear with low resistances/low runes.
A new and undergeared player, with a new and undergeared party, will not e able to tank s3 with less than 50 tenacity on our server because of high wound (red zone), or party member dying (often happen in s3) which extends the fight.

You started this discussion and its all good and players that read this guide can see all the comments as well, no point keep repeating the same points.

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32

Saturday, April 11th 2015, 7:22pm

Trainee

To unlock tenacity from conclave you need the epic one, right? thats roughly 45€.
I doubt new player will invest that amount of money, when they can't even join a decent guild unless they spend 200€ to runes.
200€+45€+ some other stuff is quite alot for new player, am i right?

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33

Saturday, April 11th 2015, 8:11pm

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

You are taking this off the topic now.
This is not the place to discuss prices. All I did is listing the ways of increasing tenacity.

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34

Sunday, April 12th 2015, 9:34am

Rain

Beginner

Posts: 31

I was browsing Paladin's builds these days and something always bothers me : Are you taking into account the potions or elixirs when you post the recommend stats ?

I'm sweating only to balance my Profency and Brutality 25-25, and i see builds with 40-40 AND other high stats

If we exclude potions and elixirs, how much "pure" stats should i see in my character window ? (with Rubies of course)

Thanks

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rain" (Apr 12th 2015, 9:41am)

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35

Sunday, April 12th 2015, 3:45pm

Beginner

Occupation: crazy cat lady

Quoted from "Rain"

I was browsing Paladin's builds these days and something always bothers me : Are you taking into account the potions or elixirs when you post the recommend stats ?

I'm sweating only to balance my Profency and Brutality 25-25, and i see builds with 40-40 AND other high stats

If we exclude potions and elixirs, how much "pure" stats should i see in my character window ? (with Rubies of course)

Thanks

To be honest I started writing this guide when around half my gear was still fable gear from last patch, and with church potents on(because for major activities such as raids/astral/dominion I always try to have elixirs or church potents).
Now my gear is mostly 66 blues.
With the new gear system the stats comes only from the glyphs, while gear gives you vigor/stamina and resistances.
The thing is old fable glyphs gives you more stats than the new green/blue 66 glyphs.

So I did try to give a big range on stats since atm there is alot of gear types in use, old fable/leggy/epic etc, new green blue 65/66, crafted gear.
Proficiency-Brutality 25-25 is just fine and within the range I stated for tank, for pvp and dps is nice to have a bit higher (30+) because you can't always depend on determination, and determination can be lower. I cant answer you about base stats without elixirs because it depends on your gear..

In conclusion, don't be overwhelmed by high stats numbers on guides, because many players still use old gear, just take the % down a little bit but keep the ratio

keep on the good work :thumbsup:

And hoped I helped!

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "A Knife" (Apr 12th 2015, 3:59pm)

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36

Thursday, April 30th 2015, 2:55pm

azalin71

Trainee

Posts: 73

Location: Danmark

Good job Efi!

Not only are you one of the best tanks ingame, you can also put together a great guide:

looks nice with individual screenies of your (very underdressed) pally
have graphics to clarify your points
covers most aspects of pallying - tanking, dps'ing, pvp/pve
gives info to both experienced pallies and new pallies (like this: Tip: these skills are now your best friends! give them the best hotkeys because you'll use these hotkeys A LOT!)
have good builds which have been tweaked over the many hours youve spent on pally (while most of the other guides either have decent (like Tippys and Gumbas), poor (like Laurannas) or awfull (like Hirodyns) builds)

Araanahn - Kanian Crusader - Warsong guild

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "azalin71" (Apr 30th 2015, 3:22pm)

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37

Thursday, April 30th 2015, 4:43pm

abdmustsam

Beginner

Posts: 15

Quoted from "azalin71"

Good job Efi!

Not only are you one of the best tanks ingame, you can also put together a great guide:

looks nice with individual screenies of your (very underdressed) pally
have graphics to clarify your points
covers most aspects of pallying - tanking, dps'ing, pvp/pve
gives info to both experienced pallies and new pallies (like this: Tip: these skills are now your best friends! give them the best hotkeys because you'll use these hotkeys A LOT!)
have good builds which have been tweaked over the many hours youve spent on pally (while most of the other guides either have decent (like Tippys and Gumbas), poor (like Laurannas) or awfull (like Hirodyns) builds)

lol, your making me laugh so hard when u mention "Gumba" and "Decent build"

.....all that guy did was copy paste my whole guide including builds :thumbdown:

Can't stop bursting the Skill Meter...

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38

Friday, May 1st 2015, 8:53am

Beginner