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Quinz

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  • »Quinz« ist der Autor dieses Themas

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Explaining a common definition of the term "pay-to-win".

NOTE: This post is supposed to be informative and helpful for those who don't know what the term "pay-to-win" means. It's in no way supposed to be negative and the purpose is not to tell you if Allods is pay-to-win or not.

Please note that the term "pay-to-win" is subjective and may have slightly different meanings to different people, but when (known) critics talk about pay-to-win in reviews, gaming magazines etc., it's usually similar to the definitions mentioned in this post since it's a quite genral meaning of the term.

(I have also added some happy smilies here and there just to spread more positivity and happy thoughts, lol :D )


I hope that this thread may reduce the amount of spam and arguments about the whole pay-to-win thing, by helping people get a better understanding of the term. I'm simply going to copy/paste the most common explanation from several different known sources. :thumbup:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players.
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play."
- Game-Wisdom

That's all, hope it was informative! :)

I personally prefer when a game offers only vanity and convenience items in the Cash Shop. I like this quote from Victor Kislyi, CEO and founder of Wargaming Public Co Ltd:

"Establishing a competitive game that is skill-based is the key. If you’re knowledgeable about the game, you should be able to have a shot at winning, even against someone who has spent more money. It’s when the “wallet warriors” always win that causes other players to get frustrated and bail out."
- IGN

Tank You! :thumbsup:
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Quinz« (wcf.global.shortTimeFormatLocalized)


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Great explanation, but at least you have the P2P server as option to avoid that.

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Well at least someone can finally shut up Allods_Online_Player about his silly argument if Allods is Pay to Win or not.
This is a pretty clear statement that it is.
With that being said, regarding the above comment, I still would push for players to come join the Pay to Win server than the Pay to Play server as you can spend the same amount on the Pay to Win server as it costs you to play on the Pay to Play server and in a few months have the basics that allow you to start gearing up your character (item shop wise). This server has access to more enjoyable content, other than having to fight full level 13 characters. :P

Purchasing 1,000 crystals (10 euros or $11 USD) a month will net you around 370,000 gold. This is a reasonable amount of gold (along with light farming) to keep you going for a month and enjoy what you're doing. So realistically, with this information is p2p or f2p cheaper...I'd say they're about even. :)


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in every game where progress matters there is the option to gain advantages using $
either you set some programmer for macros / bots on your payroll (or even better you take time to learn how to do this yourself), or you bribe the gamestaff itself, you might buy an account from someone who played a lot, its possible to do arranged events in case thy gain you something, etc
many games tell us about how strict this is forbidden and still players laugh at that since there is NO way to really stop it

the only difference is that in these cases the $ does not directly benefits the game itself(but only private persons) while in games like allods the $ goes to the company running the game (thus i see this somehow as a donation as its good for "the game")
i have never seen a better way dealing with $

so, given all these options EVERY progress-based internetgame has, theoretically we could call them ALL "pay to win"

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Quinz

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  • »Quinz« ist der Autor dieses Themas

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in every game where progress matters there is the option to gain advantages using $
either you set some programmer for macros / bots on your payroll (or even better you take time to learn how to do this yourself), or you bribe the gamestaff itself, you might buy an account from someone who played a lot, its possible to do arranged events in case thy gain you something, etc
many games tell us about how strict this is forbidden and still players laugh at that since there is NO way to really stop it

the only difference is that in these cases the $ does not directly benefits the game itself(but only private persons) while in games like allods the $ goes to the company running the game (thus i see this somehow as a donation as its good for "the game")
i have never seen a better way dealing with $

so, given all these options EVERY progress-based internetgame has, theoretically we could call them ALL "pay to win"

It's not entirely true. I've played many different mmo's during my hardcore-gaming years, and there are many games that only offers vanity items, convenience items and items for faster progress like faster exp gain etc. in the CS.

The best things those items can do for you is to save you some time, however we're not talking months or years, usually just weeks at most.
These items will not boost your damage, armor etc. You have plenty of those items in the Allods CS though, and the sky high prices doesn't really make it any more forgivable.
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

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reeah19

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IMO p2p is way cheaper than f2p now. There's nothing decent to farm to be able to buy decent/normal items, or takes YEARS to farm.
Fireofdeath -70 - demonologist
Puffypuf - 65 - furball warden
Rensy - 65 - paladin
Akyrra - 70 - psionicist healer
Turquiose - 60 - bard
Springfull - 60 - mage
FoxBee - 31 warden

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AMDRylai

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Well... I must say your definitions are highly misinforming and majority of them are summarised and not detailed enough to actually portray what Pay to Win really is. Yes, they are all truthful in some aspects BUT only one of them really describes what Pay to Win truly is and it's the one from Urban Dictionary (which is quite ironic).

Pay to Win is forced upon free players by PAY WALLS. A pay wall is what makes a game Pay to Win and restrictive towards free to play players and not many people know this. A pay wall is simply something that restricts free to play players from accessing the store unless they PAY or SOMEONE PAYS for the item. In Allods, you are able to get anything for FREE and when you claim a game is P2W make sure that game has pay walls. It does not matter how long it takes to get and grind and so forth. Yes, it's much grindier now than before to get your cash shop items but honestly... Don't blame the game... Blame the economy and the players themselves for screwing up the Currency Exchange system. So no, Allods is not P2W, it's Free to Play, Pay-for-Mininal to No-Grind. There are no paywalls whatsoever compared to other games like Rift (reently went the P2W path because of several items having a pay wall behind them) and ArcheAge.

What frustrates me even more is when people complain about how long it takes to catch up and I find that hilarious as it's not even that hard and majority of the items you wouldn't even need from the cash shop and are mostly conveniences. Sure they might have a slight advantage to you but that's every game and even then again the company has to make money. I could get full level 7's offensive and full level 5's defensive (by then I'm already able to compete and there are situations where people with weaker runes kill people with higher runes and it's no where near impossible) in around two months maximum. I can get 250k+ gold weekly and there is a guide that shows you how to do that and it's also on the forums. People must understand that nothing is free and everything comes with a price and whether you like it or not you must accept and evaluate that fact so you have a better understanding of it.

Just to clarify, the game and both servers are amazing at it's core and their own respective features. I play on both F2P and Subscription and have a great time on both, however, I would argue that the Subscription Server is indeed a better overall experience than the F2P Server but that still doesn't disregard the fact that the F2P server is just as great too.
פֿאַר אַ ניו עראַ בעגינס
-טינאַשע

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Well... I must say your definitions are highly misinforming and majority of them are summarised and not detailed enough to actually portray what Pay to Win really is. Yes, they are all truthful in some aspects BUT only one of them really describes what Pay to Win truly is and it's the one from Urban Dictionary (which is quite ironic).

Pay to Win is forced upon free players by PAY WALLS. A pay wall is what makes a game Pay to Win and restrictive towards free to play players and not many people know this. A pay wall is simply something that restricts free to play players from accessing the store unless they PAY or SOMEONE PAYS for the item. In Allods, you are able to get anything for FREE and when you claim a game is P2W make sure that game has pay walls. It does not matter how long it takes to get and grind and so forth. Yes, it's much grindier now than before to get your cash shop items but honestly... Don't blame the game... Blame the economy and the players themselves for screwing up the Currency Exchange system. So no, Allods is not P2W, it's Free to Play, Pay-for-Mininal to No-Grind. There are no paywalls whatsoever compared to other games like Rift (reently went the P2W path because of several items having a pay wall behind them) and ArcheAge.

What frustrates me even more is when people complain about how long it takes to catch up and I find that hilarious as it's not even that hard and majority of the items you wouldn't even need from the cash shop and are mostly conveniences. Sure they might have a slight advantage to you but that's every game and even then again the company has to make money. I could get full level 7's offensive and full level 5's defensive (by then I'm already able to compete and there are situations where people with weaker runes kill people with higher runes and it's no where near impossible) in around two months maximum. I can get 250k+ gold weekly and there is a guide that shows you how to do that and it's also on the forums. People must understand that nothing is free and everything comes with a price and whether you like it or not you must accept and evaluate that fact so you have a better understanding of it.

Just to clarify, the game and both servers are amazing at it's core and their own respective features. I play on both F2P and Subscription and have a great time on both, however, I would argue that the Subscription Server is indeed a better overall experience than the F2P Server but that still doesn't disregard the fact that the F2P server is just as great too.
Wrong. Games can be P2W without paywalls. You claiming Allods to be "not even that hard" to get to a good point, and yet admiting the "slight advantage", is going controversial. "Oh. But that's in every game" Play Guild Wars 2. Play Wildstar. Two games with great f2p systems. While GW2 went a bit P2W because of the xpac, the core game is still worth it and free. In allods, to be on the same level, you have to cash on obscene amounts of money.

You also use your own "i play on both F2P and Subscription..." experience as a argument which is entirely anedoctal. Fact is: Allods suffers because of population numbers, and you can't argue with that. The game has a terrible reputation, and it shouldn't because it's great. But it suffers from the same plague that a lot of good F2P games suffered: Bad management. When the publisher/maker get so damn money-hungry that they want fast return with their product, and don't focus on long time retention. Look at Archeage. Trion, the makers of Rift, known to be one of the best F2P titles in the market, are now refered to as a joke company because of the idiocy they did with Archeage. Granted, the game itself is a money-trap, but Trion could minimize that and make a great game for everyone. They didn't. Archeage is on it's 3rd server merge, if memory doesn't fail me, and that's never a good sign.

These new years are teaching us all a lesson: If you want you game to deliver money, go sub from the start and make a great damn game that's worth the sub. But if you go F2P, you don't PUNISH the f2p gamers. You give the subs/p2p a lot of fluff and cash shop advantages that's NOT A GAMEPLAY ADVANTAGE. If you treat your players like crap, they'll leave you, unless they spent obscene amounts of jaja in their characters. That's saddening. A game depending on immature whales to survive.

Welp, to each their own, i guess. Allods is great, and everytime i hear any kind of news about it, i get sad, thinking how wonderful this game could be if it was more friendly towards it's f2players.

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Quinz

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Wrong. Games can be P2W without paywalls. You claiming Allods to be "not even that hard" to get to a good point, and yet admiting the "slight advantage", is going controversial. "Oh. But that's in every game" Play Guild Wars 2. Play Wildstar. Two games with great f2p systems. While GW2 went a bit P2W because of the xpac, the core game is still worth it and free. In allods, to be on the same level, you have to cash on obscene amounts of money.

You also use your own "i play on both F2P and Subscription..." experience as a argument which is entirely anedoctal. Fact is: Allods suffers because of population numbers, and you can't argue with that. The game has a terrible reputation, and it shouldn't because it's great. But it suffers from the same plague that a lot of good F2P games suffered: Bad management. When the publisher/maker get so damn money-hungry that they want fast return with their product, and don't focus on long time retention. Look at Archeage. Trion, the makers of Rift, known to be one of the best F2P titles in the market, are now refered to as a joke company because of the idiocy they did with Archeage. Granted, the game itself is a money-trap, but Trion could minimize that and make a great game for everyone. They didn't. Archeage is on it's 3rd server merge, if memory doesn't fail me, and that's never a good sign.

These new years are teaching us all a lesson: If you want you game to deliver money, go sub from the start and make a great damn game that's worth the sub. But if you go F2P, you don't PUNISH the f2p gamers. You give the subs/p2p a lot of fluff and cash shop advantages that's NOT A GAMEPLAY ADVANTAGE. If you treat your players like crap, they'll leave you, unless they spent obscene amounts of jaja in their characters. That's saddening. A game depending on immature whales to survive.

Welp, to each their own, i guess. Allods is great, and everytime i hear any kind of news about it, i get sad, thinking how wonderful this game could be if it was more friendly towards it's f2players.

Well said, and thank you for clarifying. I need not say more.
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

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Frakkerz

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Allods is p2w. FACT.

But you don't need to spend astronomical amount of money on this to play competitively. Of course you wont be fighting on the same level as Mincs, Asce, Warsong etc. I think thats what most people complaining about p2w are really complaining about.

You can certainly farm 777/777 runes without spending along side with epic scrolls for every item in less than 6 months if you follow GliTchY's Gold Farming Guide.

I myself have 999/888 runes, half farmed half payed.

I don't fight alongside warsong in dominion, and i don't stand much chance against mincs or asce.

But just because you don't have 13 runes doesn't limit you from getting full gear in a season which with 7s makes you a powerful ally.



Patience is the key, don't join the game expecting to be worth anything straight away. 6 months after hitting max level focusing on 7s and epic scrolls and you will survive trust me.

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But you don't need to spend astronomical amount of money on this to play competitively. Of course you wont be fighting on the same level as Mincs, Asce, Warsong etc. I think thats what most people complaining about p2w are really complaining about.

I myself have 999/888 runes, half farmed half payed.

I don't fight alongside warsong in dominion, and i don't stand much chance against mincs or asce.

Highlighted some of the keywords, there isn't much to add. Not sure how can you play competitively if you're not on a level playing field with other guilds. In fact, with your pretty decent boutique stuff apparently you don't stand a chance against those who invested more money into the game.

But I guess the definition of "astronomical" is a matter of opinion.
Stargazer - P2P League
Hiren - P2P Empire

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AMDRylai

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Everything that is said is subjective. It's all personal opinion and nothing less. I had edited a really long post (this one) simply because I am not bothered and interested in arguing back as this conversation is literally going to go nowhere and it's just going to keep going and going. I'm just growing tired of these damn threads. This topic is brought up all the damn time and it's starting to get annoying. All I'm going to say is stop making negative threads about the game and get over this stupid so called fact of the game being P2W... We get it... You think the game is P2W, however I think the opposite and am appreciative that one of my favourite games is still alive going strong and releasing new content. I'll be happy on both the F2P and Subscription perspective of the game.

To any new player who sees this... Join the Subscription Server but if you're not willing to pay then the F2P is an alternative and a great one.
פֿאַר אַ ניו עראַ בעגינס
-טינאַשע

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von »AMDRylai« (wcf.global.shortTimeFormatLocalized)


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You don't need to bring any online dictionaries or anything alike.

THE VERY NAMES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

Pay Wall means just that - there's a wall between you and certain items or content that can only be overcome with paying real money.

Pay to Win means just that - every time you pay you get closer to winning, because items or content purchased give you a very perceptible power increase.

You can have a game that has pay walls but no pay to win.
You can have a game that has pay to win but no pay walls (Allods for example).
You can have a game that has neither.
You can have a game that has both.

The End.

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Quinz

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  • »Quinz« ist der Autor dieses Themas

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Everything that is said is subjective. It's all personal opinion and nothing less. I had edited a really long post (this one) simply because I am not bothered and interested in arguing back as this conversation is literally going to go nowhere and it's just going to keep going and going. I'm just growing tired of these damn threads. This topic is brought up all the damn time and it's starting to get annoying. All I'm going to say is stop making negative threads about the game and get over this stupid so called fact of the game being P2W... We get it... You think the game is P2W, however I think the opposite and am appreciative that one of my favourite games is still alive going strong and releasing new content. I'll be happy on both the F2P and Subscription perspective of the game.

To any new player who sees this... Join the Subscription Server but if you're not willing to pay then the F2P is an alternative and a great one.

Did you read the whole main post of this thread? Let me copy/paste some of the things I wrote:

"This is not just my opinion and point of view, it's facts. This is the meaning of pay-to-win, it's what people mean (or should mean) when they talk about pay-to-win. So please, stop arguing about it everywhere, don't infect other threads with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense.

NOTE: This is not a thread where I'm taking one side and trying to force people to think in one way or another. I am simply just explaining the meaning of the term, and I do not care what anyone else thinks about this game and whether it's pay-to-win or not, I'm simply stating facts. Know this before posting another argument please."


And still, here you are, arguing what p2w really is etc. and stating that I "think the game is p2w".
This is not a "negative thread" as you put it, it is, as I mentioned several times, only a thread meant to be informative and helpful for those who don't know what the term actually means. You are the only person arguing against this and causing negativity in the thread right now.


You don't need to bring any online dictionaries or anything alike.

THE VERY NAMES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

Pay Wall means just that - there's a wall between you and certain items or content that can only be overcome with paying real money.

Pay to Win means just that - every time you pay you get closer to winning, because items or content purchased give you a very perceptible power increase.

You can have a game that has pay walls but no pay to win.
You can have a game that has pay to win but no pay walls (Allods for example).
You can have a game that has neither.
You can have a game that has both.

The End.

Obviously some people do not understand the term, we have noticed this in several threads, including this one now, and it's the main cause of all the aggressive arguments around this question. That's what I was trying to prevent with this thread. It's meant to be something positive, not another wall of spam and arguments.
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

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Quinz

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  • »Quinz« ist der Autor dieses Themas

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BEFORE YOU READ: This post is supposed to be informative and helpful for those who don't know what the term "pay-to-win" means. It's in no way supposed to be negative and the purpose is not to tell you if Allods is pay-to-win or not. However, I will mention in the post if Allods is a pay-to-win game or not according to the real definition of pay-to-win, as it is a good example, and some people may also want to know.

(I have also added some happy smilies here and there just to spread more positivity and happy thoughts, lol )

Let's try this approach. I hope it clarifies the purpose of this thread :thumbsup:
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

16

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(I have also added some happy smilies here and there just to spread more positivity and happy thoughts, lol :D )


It is already so much less negative, genius approach. Thank you for helping me to realize you weren't bashing the game. ;)


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allods it's a good Mirror of real life : you pay for all things. If you want the power, kill an enemi, a mount, reset your rubis, a bag, a team, many friends, a win, a skin, a Réinc., xp, ....

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AMDRylai

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Everything that is said is subjective. It's all personal opinion and nothing less. I had edited a really long post (this one) simply because I am not bothered and interested in arguing back as this conversation is literally going to go nowhere and it's just going to keep going and going. I'm just growing tired of these damn threads. This topic is brought up all the damn time and it's starting to get annoying. All I'm going to say is stop making negative threads about the game and get over this stupid so called fact of the game being P2W... We get it... You think the game is P2W, however I think the opposite and am appreciative that one of my favourite games is still alive going strong and releasing new content. I'll be happy on both the F2P and Subscription perspective of the game.

To any new player who sees this... Join the Subscription Server but if you're not willing to pay then the F2P is an alternative and a great one.

Did you read the whole main post of this thread? Let me copy/paste some of the things I wrote:

"This is not just my opinion and point of view, it's facts. This is the meaning of pay-to-win, it's what people mean (or should mean) when they talk about pay-to-win. So please, stop arguing about it everywhere, don't infect other threads with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense.

NOTE: This is not a thread where I'm taking one side and trying to force people to think in one way or another. I am simply just explaining the meaning of the term, and I do not care what anyone else thinks about this game and whether it's pay-to-win or not, I'm simply stating facts. Know this before posting another argument please."


And still, here you are, arguing what p2w really is etc. and stating that I "think the game is p2w".
This is not a "negative thread" as you put it, it is, as I mentioned several times, only a thread meant to be informative and helpful for those who don't know what the term actually means. You are the only person arguing against this and causing negativity in the thread right now.

It does not matter what this thread was intended to be. It's considered spam and it will always be spam because this stupid ridiculous topic has been put here and everywhere non-stop for the past four years or so. Get over it. Stop making these annoying threads that causes never ending arguments, which are negative and irrelevant. Move on, shut up and join the Subscription Server if people are going to make these threads. When people come to the forums here and see threads like this it scares them away and thus they don't want to join and thus the playerbase dwindles down again and again and again. If you're going to make a thread like this (you shouldn't but if you do) make sure to promote the Subscription, experience and equilibrium play on that server because that server is where the game is best at it's core.

Mind you, that you can't change someones opinion even if you force them as it's YOUR OWN opinion and then again, even though they share the similar views to your opinion does not make them right and does not make you right. It's not a fact that Allods is P2W, it's an opinion. The term P2W is subjective, it's not objective and never will be a factual definition or a real one. The game in my opinion and others too think it's Free to Play/Pay for Convenience as thats what we feel goes along the lines of. If you think it's P2W then that's up to you and not up to us but don't shove your opinion, which is in fact biased down other peoples throats so you can make them see things your way.

Your thread is in no way helpful or positive, it's negative to the fullest and shouldn't be brought up on the forums at all unless it's in the suggestions section where you inform the developers/publisher of the issues or you can do so privately by contacting customer support and thus sending them feedback to help and improve the game and the status of the devs/pubs. The topic has been going on and on and on, which by now is making the game the laughing stock of MMORPGs because of how it's being presented by the community itself not just other gamers. So finally, I repeat... There is no ACTUAL definition for the term "Pay to Win" as that phrase is subjectively defined and it's defined by someones personal experience, preference, knowledge and view point of the topic. If you go to any discussion thread on some MMORPG site and someone asks "What does the term P2W even mean?"... Haha, well... You're in for a treat mate because you're going to get a wide variety of opinions and definitions, which vary/differentiate from everyone elses. Here's a great example - https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comm…in_mean_to_you/ and this is evidently clear that it's all subjective due to the many definition derived from that term. A lot of people would consider Allods F2P and a lot would consider it P2W and some even P2P. It's all opinionated, it's not facts and never will be.

I might have come across as sour here but this has to be addressed so people can come to that realisation because it's getting to the point where it's undeniably annoying and infuriating simply because this topic is mentioned multiple times.
פֿאַר אַ ניו עראַ בעגינס
-טינאַשע

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19

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Sure it's pay to win, but some people also forget that a lot of us have been playing pretty much non stop for 6 years. Back in the day it was so much easier to farm runes and gold.

You can still be competitive with lvl 9 runes, look at SoS who had quite a few people with those runes and put up a hell of a fight each dominion. Yet again here people might have a lot more experience in their class and allods in general over people that have just started playing.

Also Lacry, even if people bought accounts that, in no sense, makes them a good player.

20

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Quinz

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  • »Quinz« ist der Autor dieses Themas

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It does not matter what this thread was intended to be. It's considered spam and it will always be spam because this stupid ridiculous topic has been put here and everywhere non-stop for the past four years or so. Get over it. Stop making these annoying threads that causes never ending arguments, which are negative and irrelevant. Move on, shut up and join the Subscription Server if people are going to make these threads. When people come to the forums here and see threads like this it scares them away and thus they don't want to join and thus the playerbase dwindles down again and again and again. If you're going to make a thread like this (you shouldn't but if you do) make sure to promote the Subscription, experience and equilibrium play on that server because that server is where the game is best at it's core.

Mind you, that you can't change someones opinion even if you force them as it's YOUR OWN opinion and then again, even though they share the similar views to your opinion does not make them right and does not make you right. It's not a fact that Allods is P2W, it's an opinion. The term P2W is subjective, it's not objective and never will be a factual definition or a real one. The game in my opinion and others too think it's Free to Play/Pay for Convenience as thats what we feel goes along the lines of. If you think it's P2W then that's up to you and not up to us but don't shove your opinion, which is in fact biased down other peoples throats so you can make them see things your way.

Your thread is in no way helpful or positive, it's negative to the fullest and shouldn't be brought up on the forums at all unless it's in the suggestions section where you inform the developers/publisher of the issues or you can do so privately by contacting customer support and thus sending them feedback to help and improve the game and the status of the devs/pubs. The topic has been going on and on and on, which by now is making the game the laughing stock of MMORPGs because of how it's being presented by the community itself not just other gamers. So finally, I repeat... There is no ACTUAL definition for the term "Pay to Win" as that phrase is subjectively defined and it's defined by someones personal experience, preference, knowledge and view point of the topic. If you go to any discussion thread on some MMORPG site and someone asks "What does the term P2W even mean?"... Haha, well... You're in for a treat mate because you're going to get a wide variety of opinions and definitions, which vary/differentiate from everyone elses. Here's a great example - https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comm…in_mean_to_you/ and this is evidently clear that it's all subjective due to the many definition derived from that term. A lot of people would consider Allods F2P and a lot would consider it P2W and some even P2P. It's all opinionated, it's not facts and never will be.

I might have come across as sour here but this has to be addressed so people can come to that realisation because it's getting to the point where it's undeniably annoying and infuriating simply because this topic is mentioned multiple times.



Ok bud, let's try to make this thread even better. I will rephrase and mention in the main post that this is the "most common" definition of pay-to-win, but that the term may be subjective and can have slightly different meanings to different people.

This is just an attempt to reduce the amount of threads and posts regarding this topic, by having one thread that simply explains the common definition of the term.

If you have any other suggestions please let me know. Thanks! :)

EDIT: Updated the main post. Have a look :)
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

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