Allods Online Forum

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

as for fairness & balance: again, this game is NOT about fairness & balance but the domination of the weak, but as it seems some players still wish for "fairplay" the subscriptionserver was introduced to make all these happy (which i think was a great move as it should make ALL happy)

Exactly AOP, i think most of the useless topics/debate regarding the game being p2w wouldn't exist if people would simply understand that the purpose of the f2p server isn't to be fair or balence.

To me, mmorpg's are the best type of game for many reasons i wont detail here, and one of their great aspects is that in a certain way, they give us a kind of overall view of our real world.
I've already talked about that in a previous post but the economical and social aspcects are 2 things i really like to study, and mmo's are interesting for that.
Personnaly, i clearly see the f2p server as a pure capitalist system, as the aim is to dominate as much as possible the others by collecting as much ressources as possible over time. And, if it's a very violent, unfair and super dangerous system irl, it's on the contrary super fun in a game ("funny" thing is that people generaly accept/don't see the bad in it irl, but ig they immediatly see that they don't like that, well not aop and i, but the majority )
This system should remain smthing you experiment via a game imo, too sad it's actually our reality

On the contrary, a p2p server is very similar to a communist system, as everyone is equal and get the same chances... . I'd personnaly love to see our real life economy/society following a communist system (with things like salary for life, theorized in France by the economist Bernard Friot, if frenches are reading this and want to discover his work ) but there are way too many things to say about that so i'll keep this for later, it could make a great subject of debate in the off topic section

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

realizing whre i could be now regarding items runes etc,i am already "traumatized" by the fact i started this game faaar too late
(exchangerate at NPC was 1:1 once....! farming ~1,100,000 gold before this was introduced would have resulted in full 13's)

THAT's for me the true unfairness of this game (not the kind of "good" unfarness i've talked about above). They should (and could easily) make a fixed gold/bc ratio every year that would fit exactly the inflation. This way a frechly arrived newbie could theoricaly farm as much bc as a veteran a few years ago. Because if now you can farm X amount of bc in a month, back at the very start of the game, a player could farm X + ? amount which is truely unfair...

PS : i wrote all this a first time then when it was time to post it the forum told me i've been disconnected x_x it's really because thiese subjects interested me a lot that i found the will to rewrite everything, but thought i've raged so much

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

so this is not a question of paymentoptions but rather a question of gamemechanics in general
we already have found out some players feel overchallenged by gearing up + gaining items for improvement so for these its more comfortable if there is only gear to improve (-> "carefree plug and play")
then only skill matters, not the amount of "work" invested in farming etc

It doesn't have to be only possible to get gear in order for a game to be fair and balanced. All of the cash shop items used in Allods now could actually remain in the game and still the game could be more balanced and fair, if only the items were actually obtainable from raids, astral etc. Then it would be possible for everyone to obtain it within a reasonable time without having to pay real money. Even with a (MUCH) lower gold to bc ratio it could be more balanced and fair.

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

as for fairness & balance: again, this game is NOT about fairness & balance but the domination of the weak, but as it seems some players still wish for "fairplay" the subscriptionserver was introduced to make all these happy (which i think was a great move as it should make ALL happy)

My point! The current situation on the F2P is unfortunately like this. I'm glad we're on the same page

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

Quoted from "Hiren"

There's a reason why some versions of Allods which probably shouldn't be mentioned on here forums are so popular and people are willing to spend fairly decent amount of money on it despite how easy it is to get those things.

in the same run you should mention that in these "versions" random bans are issued quite fast sometimes
and other this the server connected to the development-team and a well going company which has a secure future, p-servers do not

First of all AOP you have no idea what are you even talking about because u never tried it...

Lets just say I and many of my friends choose to play or have played on couple of those "versions" (havent heard of any random bans or whatnot btw). Part of the reasons p2p isnt getting any decent playerbase is also a fault of those "versions" since they provide exactly the middle ground of what most of the players who played/play Allods want. Nothing is overpriced and actually achievable with smaller time span compared to the f2p server so u can "farm" for your stuff if you want to have some kind advantage over somebody who doesent yet the pvp is basically the same and balanced as p2p one. No need to farm 100 years for lvl 10 runes, quite balanced pvp comparable to p2p server (class nerfs/boosts and game updates on weekly bases), p2p population problems that actually dont appear to be an issue on those "versions". Last thing would probably be that 7.0 pvp is far from being the best patch Allods had imo but people might disagree with me on that one. All of this together + whatever other reasons have been already said makes the p2p server sadly not an option for most of the playerbase.


I for one and friends from Avarice quit the p2p server because of the huge lack of opposing competition in pvp and not enough comptetetive players on my side who would do the most hardcore content in the game with us on daily bases.

Each to their own enjoyment

Quoted

First of all AOP you have no idea what are you even talking about because u never tried it...

Oh dracias, how I miss you!

Okay, I guess some people might've misunderstood my point about the so called "other servers".
I don't care about their admins, staff, players or anything, it was entirely pointed at the business model of those versions. As Dracias said it provides a great middle-ground between P2P and F2P.

Here're the reasons I can think of:

• Offers all the features that P2P comes with (even though personally I'm not exactly fan of battle mounts and battle armor)
  
• Reasonable pricing which appeals to both new and older players (people are way more likely to spend $5-10 at a time on a game than having to spend $100-500. Believe it or not, it adds up quickly).
  
• Through cheaper prices there's a more lively economy when it comes to exchange rates.
  
• Through better exchange rate and greater supply there's easier access for free players to same kind of cash shop gear
  
• Through easier access to cash shop gear there's better balance on the server and people being able to farm good enough cash shop gear to compete with
  
• All of which above leads to more people joining and actually sticking around. Healthier competition and progress with raids. More sources of income. Success.
  

Although I prefer the P2P balance overall, I wouldn't mind playing on F2P. Except getting into it without a decent past there, I'd have to either spend hundreds of euros or multiple seasons of farming to be anywhere close to your average competitive player. On the other hand if there was an official server with that kind of business model, I could think of one or two dozens of players who'd get right in there (including myself) and actually spend money on it. And hey, I've been playing on P2P so I obviously don't even know that many players.

Quoted from "homerosi"

Quoted

First of all AOP you have no idea what are you even talking about because u never tried it...

Oh dracias, how I miss you!

hahAA yes I still cant take his bs Im sorry times never change :s

i dont see the point of promoting private servers stating its "affordable for everyone" to get "full cs"
if everyone can get everything, there is no longer any point in competition as all are equal, no need to fight then, it will be become as boring as possible, a pure skill/luck duell
also, what do you pay for on private server then? for beeing equal with everyone? in the end its something like "buy to play then" but without having anything in your hands... a questionable deal
if i pay i want to actually get something for my $ at least, even if its only some virtual advantage...

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

i dont see the point of promoting private servers stating its "affordable for everyone" to get "full cs"
if everyone can get everything, there is no longer any point in competition as all are equal, no need to fight then, it will be become as boring as possible, a pure skill/luck duell
also, what do you pay for on private server then? for beeing equal with everyone? in the end its something like "buy to play then" but without having anything in your hands... a questionable deal
if i pay i want to actually get something for my $ at least, even if its only some virtual advantage...

I wonder if you actully said anything useful in those 3k posts you did

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

i dont see the point of promoting private servers stating its "affordable for everyone" to get "full cs"
if everyone can get everything, there is no longer any point in competition as all are equal, no need to fight then, it will be become as boring as possible, a pure skill/luck duell
also, what do you pay for on private server then? for beeing equal with everyone? in the end its something like "buy to play then" but without having anything in your hands... a questionable deal
if i pay i want to actually get something for my $ at least, even if its only some virtual advantage...

Nobody is promoting private servers, it's literally only you who keeps bringing them up. I was talking about how great an affordable official English F2P server would be for Allods online. The closest realistic example would be one of those servers.

Your opinion about balance is purely an opinion, nothing else. If balanced fights which are determined by skill are pointless and boring, I suppose the over 500k-ish viewers on Twitch alone in CSGO/LoL/DoTA major tournaments are only there because they feel the need to be bored. People are cheering for teams and betting out of pure boredom and lack of interests. Participating teams are generally sponsored by massive companies as well, only because there's totally no point to tournaments with a prize pool of about $1million-$18million. You should try reading your own posts once in a while.

As for you paying, I believe you stated several times that you're entirely free to play. So what does it matter what you want for your money, if you're not going to spend it? Spending money could save you from wasting time in-game with brainless gold farming, it could help latecomers catch up to speed quickly and there could be unique mounts skins for people topping up.
I mean what the hell, there're only probably about a few hundreds of games way more successful than Allods EU/NA servers where you get significantly less force multipliers for your money and there're probably a few dozens in the genre as well.

Quoted from "Hiren"

Nobody is promoting private servers

read again

Quoted from "dragonsvk8"

Part of the reasons p2p isnt getting any decent playerbase is also a fault of those "versions" since they provide exactly the middle ground of what most of the players who played/play Allods want. Nothing is overpriced and actually achievable with smaller time span compared to the f2p server so u can "farm" for your stuff if you want to have some kind advantage over somebody who doesent yet the pvp is basically the same and balanced as p2p one. No need to farm 100 years for lvl 10 runes, quite balanced pvp comparable to p2p server (class nerfs/boosts and game updates on weekly bases), p2p population problems that actually dont appear to be an issue on those "versions"

Quoted from "Hiren"

I suppose the over 500k-ish viewers on Twitch alone in CSGO/LoL/DoTA major tournaments are only there because they feel the need to be bored

i will never understand how these things get so many viewers, its the ultimate form of boredom, its always the same, watching water cooking is more exciting
but thats just me and anyway not our topic here

Quoted from "Hiren"

you stated several times that you're entirely free to play. So what does it matter what you want for your money, if you're not going to spend it

actually i spend something that is even more valuable than money, my time
regarding the enourmous bandwidht of pleasent things possible to do with a computer& internet, choosing allods makes its seem there is something special about this game

again, many players do like the "force multipliers" available for money or gold
i think those who do not, but still like the game as a whole, play on smugglers paradise usually

Quoted from "khaexea"

You should go to the hospital and check your head, you may be suffering from stupidity. The point of the games are because everything is the same except the players skill. If there was no such thing as skill in life we would not have all these technological advancements. We would not even have Allods if a team did not have the skill to design and develop the game. Please go get checked out at the doctors. I am really concerned for your mental health.

or you could also accept that everyone has his own POV, and if you don't understand it, at least don't be that mean...
Here's a tip for you : if you want more player to try the p2p server, beiing disrepectul/aggresive on this forum is just counterproductive imo

khaexea,

its a pity you bring this down to personal insults just because i dont share your opionion
i thought a constructive discussion would have been possible

also this is not about RL or RL inventions or anything, its just about a virtual game serving just one purpose, gaining fun for the player, nothing more

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

read again

I did and he's not promoting anything. It's exactly what I said about the business model. By making things cheaper it appeals to more people. You could potentially achieve almost P2P levels of balance even as a free player within reasonable time frame, yet people who don't consider grinding to be worth can get there for reasonable amount of money spent.
I'm pretty sure this would appeal not only to the majority of P2P and F2P players, but also potential customers who have been (or are going to be) scared away due to the insane amount of money you'd have to pay on F2P.

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

i will never understand how these things get so many viewers, its the ultimate form of boredom, its always the same, watching water cooking is more exciting
but thats just me and anyway not our topic here

It is actually quite related to our conversation. Your personal opinions aside, games where personal skill, strategy and teamwork decide the outcome of different encounters are highly popular, whereas pretty much any game with anywhere close to Allods Online's pay to win factors are struggling in NA and EU.
I'd assume you can figure out the rest yourself, but just in case you're unable to do so I'll throw in some thoughts you can follow up on:
A game appealing to a wider audience means more players. More players mean more customers. More customers mean profit. Profit leads to longer product lifetime, updates and support.

Quoted from "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER"

actually i spend something that is even more valuable than money, my time

That sounds noble and all, I actually agree that free players are just as needed for these games so they feel populated. On the other hand, the value of your time is questionable. If I were a shareholder or a developer or anything related to Allods, I'd rather take home money than your time. The latter one doesn't really feed people.

Folks,

a) Warning -- Attack the post, not the poster. Sad to see some people resorting to petty insults. Do this at your own peril.

b) Time is not a factor any developer will neglect. Time often leads to money, and everyone knows the shopkeeper mentality: trying to keep potential customers within their store for as long as possible, even if they're just having a casual browse with no intent to pay. The longer you keep them in store, the more likely you are to buy something in the end, even just for the hell of it. The same can (and usually does) apply to FTP gaming.

c) Private servers get shut down eventually. Reminds me of the outcry over Blizzards relatively recent closing of the largest private server ever known to WoW - and I simply had to ask myself "Why was anyone even surprised?" They detract population from the official game/servers (not something any company would stomach eternally, especially with declining player-figures) and very few (if any) would ever be fully happy with them under any circumstances when it comes to certain business models. Sure, you can forge your own slice of [insert game here] with a private server, but it is never safe. Even if they were, I'd never use them as I feel it's somewhat pointless to play games away from the original source, but that's just me.

Anyways, that's my 2cents. Be nice, folks. There's no need to wreck a discussion through negativity over differences of opinion.

Regards,
Mhul

Quoted from "Mhuldoon"

c) Private servers get shut down eventually. Reminds me of the outcry over Blizzards relatively recent closing of the largest private server ever known to WoW - and I simply had to ask myself "Why was anyone even surprised?" They detract population from the official game/servers (not something any company would stomach eternally, especially with declining player-figures) and very few (if any) would ever be fully happy with them under any circumstances when it comes to certain business models. Sure, you can forge your own slice of [insert game here] with a private server, but it is never safe. Even if they were, I'd never use them as I feel it's somewhat pointless to play games away from the original source, but that's just me.

As much as I want to agree with this I simply cant, atleast not fully. Lets be real Blizzard is way bigger company than mail.ru/my.com and just by this principe the chances of shutting down a private server are way bigger. The idea behind the "one" u are talking about was that everything was actually completely free without any single donation needed/asked for, basically the people who created it, created it just for the love of the game to let everybody else who lved the game back then play there, which has never been seen before. Thats why it got shut down, it provided quality very comparable to official WoW servers and thats why it brought so much attention to them. That was literally the first time I heard they shut down a private server. Allods is no different so far.

I dont know if I can talk about this but you might want to believe that Allods teams are "against" the idea of those servers, yet, there were some "sneaky things" happening in the past with something something being sold to people who provide those servers. You know, why would some company let all the servers that were made for countries like NA/Brazil/Turkey etc just go to waste ? Might aswell just recycle them somwhere else...

Anyways if this is against the rules or anything just delete it but thats how it goes, atleast from my experience and knowledge.

And I just want to add..AOP is one of the 0.001% of mmo population who doesent want/need to understand why something is wrong for most of the people, yet for him its the golden and the other way around, hes just "different" so just deal with it or ignore it and leave him be in his own world

Quoted from "Mhuldoon"

c) Private servers get shut down eventually. Reminds me of the outcry over Blizzards relatively recent closing of the largest private server ever known to WoW - and I simply had to ask myself "Why was anyone even surprised?" They detract population from the official game/servers (not something any company would stomach eternally, especially with declining player-figures) and very few (if any) would ever be fully happy with them under any circumstances when it comes to certain business models. Sure, you can forge your own slice of [insert game here] with a private server, but it is never safe. Even if they were, I'd never use them as I feel it's somewhat pointless to play games away from the original source, but that's just me.

This is an entirely different topic though. The only reason that private servers were brought up is because we were talking about the shortcomings of both F2P and P2P and came to the conclusion that properly done mix of those two would be popular enough (well, technically it's pretty much just F2P with significantly cheaper prices... which basically leads to P2P levels of balance).
How those private servers deal with their things and the whole legal issue is their business and rather irrelevant. It's just the point that despite being unofficial and unsafe as you would put it, there's still a market for them.

The WoW business is slightly different though. They're not so much competing with their official counterparts, but providing an entirely different experience from what I understand. I haven't played much of WoW before, but most people seem to share the opinion that WoW went downhill being way more casual and all that. The people who quit the game are no longer potential customers of Blizzard as they're interested in something that the company no longer offers, thus not really subtracting from the profits.

There's a similar case of Warhammer Online too where the servers have been entirely closed down, yet the community has worked together to recreate the servers. It's no easy work and the servers have constantly issues, it's also just as unsafe and could be potentially shut down anything.

There is however no alternative to either of the cases above. As much as they're unsafe, those people play on private servers to experience something that is no longer available. Personally I feel like it's not so much the case with Allods. As far as I'm aware there're no 7.0 private servers but from what we've been talking with people, the players aren't really dissatisfied with the 7.0 patch itself (although the Astral content could've used some more love before it hit the servers). Most of the complaints seem to be either about the prices of the F2P server and the lack of balance there or the lack of population on the P2P. And of course the only thing everyone agrees with is the lack of advertisement and trying from my.com's side.

Quoted

they're interested in something that the company no longer offers,
thus not really subtracting from the profits.

At the end of the day, they are still substituting the source for an alternative - both of which is still owned by the respective company, not the owners of the server that employ said version. In essence - they are just a different iteration of source at someone else's prices (beit free or otherwise), hence negatively viewed for the most part.

Regardless, it is not my intention to swerve this discussion into one of private servers (I simply pointed out three things I noticed in posts but ended up discussing one more than the other), just made a point that they're not exactly reliable and, no matter who controls them, they do not actually own what they are providing others -- and shut downs happen more than you might think, given there are an insurmountable number of them. And yes, I can confirm that private servers in general are not a much loved discussion topic on the forums (they can be discussed, but actual promotion of them is a no-go -- take that as a friendly heads-up just in-case).

How does any of that effect our official F2P/P2P server? Same reason -- no matter how you spin it, everyone is still technically playing the same game (in terms of ownership) thus mainstream population suffers, no matter whether you consider the private iteration good/bad. It is inevitable (leaving to play another game, or a different version of the same game -- happens all the time), a grey area, and often not overly explored or cared about on developers part unless they stumble on them (most don't actually go hunting) - but you can be sure, stumble or not, they are not overly joyed at them being around in any capacity. It can partially translate to P2P & F2P (and why this discussion is happening).

How many times have you seen it be asked? "Why do so few move from F2P to P2P?" -- most already know the answers, but a lot of it can stem from above described factors as well.

Anyhow, back to the core issue!

Regards,
Mhul