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A CC Class without meaningful CC's

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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 1:21am

metallix6

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A CC Class without meaningful CC's

Anyone else think it's rather sad that Psi's a class that are supposed to be CC/DPS can no longer do either very well?

I mean without conviction stacking they have less CC's then even Warriors now.

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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 8:27am

ryan9690

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thoughtful spirit hits like a speeding mac truck
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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 12:13pm

Biromir

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Psi's need more meaningful CC in pve. In pvp, they're already quite annoying. I do not think TK pull should be a reinc skill. If it were Psi exclusive, they would be a much more meaningful class.

The problem is this - Psi's have tk pull and the skill that pushes enemies back. Now, that is great for pvp. For pve - it stinks to spread enemies around, we can't aoe efficiently. Here is my suggestion - a ruby which does this - for every 4 enemies pulled by tk pull, one will remain held in the black hole for 20s, where it will be immune to damage. That is somewhat a meaningful CC, that will affect every 4th mob in a pull. Players can still break the cc with martyr's protection.

It's sad that mage is now the best CC in the game and their damage is only rivaled by warriors.
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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 12:17pm

Bloodraven

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Quoted from "Biromir"


It's sad that mage is now the best CC in the game and their damage is only rivaled by warriors.
WAT.
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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 12:38pm

Biromir

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Double icy grave and massive damage. But paired warriors with a good build and good stats do more damage.
Colin Quinn Recipe for success/dinner. 1/2 cup of brass you know whats, a tablespoon of I don't give a care, and a pound of get off my back, jack!

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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 12:45pm

Bloodraven

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Quoted from "Biromir"

Double icy grave and massive damage. But paired warriors with a good build and good stats do more damage.
Scouts up there too yo, equal of not more damage than them with 30 s stun + other usefull cc's. Granted icy grave is better than that, it doesnt mean psi's aren't usefull still, they do have hypno ( double ) + shtton of usefull cc albeit not as much dps as a mage ( though you can spec into a pve dps spec that could yield more than average dps ).
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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 11:34pm

metallix6

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Normal Psi CC's are as follows

TK Pull - 1-2 second knockdown.

TK Pulse - 3 second stun with all rubies.

Will Suppression - 2 second hold. (Also makes you lose twin if used)

That is all.

It's kind of sad that at this point even Warriors have more and longer CC's then a class that is supposed to be all about it's CC's.

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Sunday, April 6th 2014, 11:39pm

Dhamp

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Comparing modern Psionicist to it's original state is pointless - it's clearly a DPS class now.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 12:35am

metallix6

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Which would be great if they had DPS comparable to Mages or Warriors, but they don't.

In fact I believe taking gear and runes into account they tend to be at the bottom of the DPS tree.

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 12:42am

Dhamp

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The last time I played Pyro, people were perpetuating the myth that Pyro was inferior DPS to Astral, which at the time was resulting in a ~20% loss of DPS.

Which is not to say that Pyro is *better*, as the choice is between superior DPS and superior mobility, QoL and utility.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Dhamp" (Apr 7th 2014, 12:49am)

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 1:25am

Rekenber

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Quoted from "metallix6"

Will Suppression - 2 second hold. (Also makes you lose twin if used)
IF you have the ruby. Also Spectral Assassin, but who uses that.

Hopefully some changes might come again, so we can get back to being a pleasant change from the Almighty MMO Trinity.

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 9:53am

SΛΤΗΩ

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Quoted from "metallix6"

Anyone else think it's rather sad that Psi's a class that are supposed to be CC/DPS can no longer do either very well?

I mean without conviction stacking they have less CC's then even Warriors now.


It's not, you have to learn how to play it.
For pve pyro+temp.acc. build does huge DPS - Ive checked it many times now.
On pvp as a CC class I can play with multiple (astral breath is annoying for warriors :)) targets. In BG I am able to CC 2 targets self being equipped in crappy items, with crappy stats and with epic glyphs just by balancing CC between them. The worst thing is that you run out of mana quick (in pvp not in pve). At least till we get better gear.
Psi is and always was, the hardest class to play. It combines skills, knowledge of your class, good well-thought build and well worked rotation of your skills. You cant go and press 1-3-2-1-1-1-4, like you do it on warrior, mage or other DPS.
Whereas for warriors CC's, they were overpowered in compare to all other classes in the patch they change them the rubie grid.
I don't know if it still applies, but before this patch (5.0) there was a rubie in warrior build that allowed them to ignore their opponents barriers, so when they charged there wasn't any force to stop them (It was specially fked up for mages when we died with all the barriers on). That made them invincible and better in CC then other classes, bcz the charge knocks you down and then they can use other CC on you.

Quoted from "Biromir"


The problem is this - Psi's have tk pull and the skill that pushes enemies back. Now, that is great for pvp. For pve - it stinks to spread enemies around, we can't aoe efficiently.


Disagree. A skillful psi, takes the mobs together and then use the pulse to throw them in one direction together, so that the tank can charge on them.

Quoted from "metallix6"


Normal Psi CC's are as follows
TK Pull - 1-2 second knockdown.
TK Pulse - 3 second stun with all rubies.
Will Suppression - 2 second hold. (Also makes you lose twin if used)
That is all.
It's kind of sad that at this point even Warriors have more and longer CC's then a class that is supposed to be all about it's CC's.


You forgot to mention the hypnosis, astral breath/choke and mental fire (a kind of a cc).

Quoted from "Dhamp"


The last time I played Pyro, people were perpetuating the myth that Pyro was inferior DPS to Astral, which at the time was resulting in a ~20% loss of DPS.
Which is not to say that Pyro is *better*, as the choice is between superior DPS and superior mobility, QoL and utility.


Pyro is a great choice in pve build. Combine with temp.acc it does huge dmg., one thing is that it's less mobile then astral build therefore bit weaker in pvp, and you need more rubies for pyro & temp.acc so u have less for choke, WOB (if u use them) etc. or even in prolonging duration of your stuns.
btw. a hint: don't waste rubies/talents in twin for pve-allods builds. Most elite mobs and boss can see you even if you have the twin on, and for the pack of minor mobs it doesn't matter if u use twin on one of them, the rest can see you and attack you.



Quoted from "Rekenber"


Also Spectral Assassin, but who uses that.
Hopefully some changes might come again, so we can get back to being a pleasant change from the Almighty MMO Trinity.


No one, bcz it's useless. Doesn't do dmg. and it's weak.
in 5.1 Warden, Scout and Psi get re-mapped if I'm not mistaken.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "SΛΤΗΩ" (Apr 7th 2014, 10:16am)

13

Monday, April 7th 2014, 10:13am

Dhamp

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Don't waste time with choke in a Pyro build.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 11:28am

Oshi

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psi is op !
:) :) :)

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 1:41pm

Dala

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Quoted from "Biromir"

Psi's need more meaningful CC in pve. In pvp, they're already quite annoying. I do not think TK pull should be a reinc skill. If it were Psi exclusive, they would be a much more meaningful class.

reinc TK pull has been nerfed with 5.0, three target limit makes it SIGNIFICANTLY worse than original psi pull with unlimited targets

Quoted from "metallix6"

Which would be great if they had DPS comparable to Mages or Warriors, but they don't.

Maybe if you use astral build.
With pyro build if there's no long movement (20s+ straight that would make your pyrophrenia stacks fall off) you do pretty much the same as a mage for single target.

Quoted from "Dhamp"

The last time I played Pyro, people were perpetuating the myth that Pyro was inferior DPS to Astral, which at the time was resulting in a ~20% loss of DPS.

They were wrong, and if someone still thinks so, they are wrong.

Quoted from "Dhamp"


Which is not to say that Pyro is *better*, as the choice is between superior DPS and superior mobility, QoL and utility.

When it comes to PvE dps - Pyro IS better. That's a fact, unless a fight is maybe less than 20s long.
With 5 stacks of pyrophrenia, it takes LESS time to cast a pyro than it takes to cast Astral Venom (due to cooldown). And that pyro also does like 3-6k more damage even without 'extra hit'.

Quoted from "SΛΤΗΩ"


For pve pyro+temp.acc. build does huge DPS - Ive checked it many times now.

Pyro is a great choice in pve build. Combine with temp.acc it does huge dmg., one thing is that it's less mobile then astral build therefore bit weaker in pvp, and you need more rubies for pyro & temp.acc so u have less for choke, WOB (if u use them) etc. or even in prolonging duration of your stuns.


This guy knows what he's talking about.

Not sure how it's on the f2p server, but with the amount of rubies available on subscription server, there's not enough rubies to make Choke worthwhile at all in a pyro build. Most effective version is pure pyro + destabilization.
And ofcourse, pyro build is definitely not for PvP.

Quoted from "SΛΤΗΩ"


in 5.1 Warden, Scout and Psi get re-mapped if I'm not mistaken.

Sadly, only warden is being reworked for 5.1 From what I read on the RU forums, psi is not even planned for a rework aside from maybe some minor fixes.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Dala" (Apr 7th 2014, 1:49pm)

16

Monday, April 7th 2014, 2:38pm

Rekenber

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Quoted from "SΛΤΗΩ"

in 5.1 Warden, Scout and Psi get re-mapped if I'm not mistaken.
Source?

-Sankhua, 60 Arisen Psionicist-
Little Things You Learned About Allods
New 60 Gear Guide (WIP)

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 3:42pm

ValekLost

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There is a Q&A with the Allods Team, somewhere, maybe on Oracle's site.
5.1 will be all around pvp contents and they said scout class will be reworked on multiple levels, in particolar about their role in pvp activities and inside the party/raids.
For Wardens will be available the fullhealer build.



EDIT:
I've found something :D

http://allodsoracle.com/patches/banner-of-war/


http://allodsoracle.com/future-improvements-to-gameplay/

Quoted

I have just 2 questions for the administrators:
1) When can we expect the redevelopment of Scouts?
2) Will it be a proper redevelopment or again just “cosmetics” for a few months?

There will be significant changes to the “Scout” class. They will affect not only PvE/PvP effectiveness, but also the role of this class in a group. You can expect them after 5.0.1.


Hope this helps, even if I didn't find anything about Psis.

Thakalek
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<Pirati Astrali>
From [ITA] server :|

"Oh my GOSH! FROGS! Frogs EVERYWHERE on this SHIP! And they're ALL CHASINGMEAHHHH!" [Me, during every Archdemon event ._.]

18

Monday, April 7th 2014, 4:05pm

Rekenber

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Either way, I hope all the stat rubies get properly fixed.

-Sankhua, 60 Arisen Psionicist-
Little Things You Learned About Allods
New 60 Gear Guide (WIP)

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Monday, April 7th 2014, 4:34pm

Dala

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Quoted from "Rekenber"

Either way, I hope all the stat rubies get properly fixed.


They are, just their descriptions in english version aren't.

20

Monday, April 7th 2014, 6:26pm

metallix6

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[quote]It's not, you have to learn how to play it.
For pve pyro+temp.acc. build does huge DPS - Ive checked it many times now.
On pvp as a CC class I can play with multiple (astral breath is annoying for warriors :)) targets. In BG I am able to CC 2 targets self being equipped in crappy items, with crappy stats and with epic glyphs just by balancing CC between them. The worst thing is that you run out of mana quick (in pvp not in pve). At least till we get better gear.
Psi is and always was, the hardest class to play. It combines skills, knowledge of your class, good well-thought build and well worked rotation of your skills. You cant go and press 1-3-2-1-1-1-4, like you do it on warrior, mage or other DPS.
Whereas for warriors CC's, they were overpowered in compare to all other classes in the patch they change them the rubie grid.
I don't know if it still applies, but before this patch (5.0) there was a rubie in warrior build that allowed them to ignore their opponents barriers, so when they charged there wasn't any force to stop them (It was specially fked up for mages when we died with all the barriers on). That made them invincible and better in CC then other classes, bcz the charge knocks you down and then they can use other CC on you.[/quote]

You had me going right up until you suggested that Astral Breath would annoy warriors in pvp.

You see if you had actually played a psi you would know that any warrior worth their salt has the ruby that allows charge to ignore CC's. Which means astral breath or choke is about as useful as thin air against them in PvP.
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