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1

Wednesday, April 23rd 2014, 2:18am

[PMB] Paired Fists Warden

Hello!

I'm Cooled from Legends! My main role is DPS in pve and "healer breaker"/DPS in pvp.
First of all i must say that i've been playing as a paired fists warden for a looong time (started as a caster and more or less in the end of the patch where level cap was still lvl40 i changed to paired and i loved it... i allways test it if it is still worthing in every patch). I actually think that i was the only high level paired fists warden in my previous servers(...) but the reason for this was not that paired is bad (its pretty good actually). i've been kind of a "joke" for a lot of people for a long time. they were making fun of me and excluding me from doing stuff because they wanted to force me to go 2h/caster and whenever i asked "why do you think it is better? did you ever try paired?" the answer was allways the same: "no.. but 99% of the russ server wardens are 2h/caster... that must mean something no?". I tryed to show them that paired warden was good but whenever i tryed to prove them wrong they simply compared me with some other warden that had waaaay more Velhuru then i had (my gear was really bad by the time :P)... that was not even a fair comparision... they simply didnt want to listen and respect my opinion! i never asked for others to change to paired! i just wanted others to respect me the way i wanted to be (as a paired fists warden)! i found this friendship/respect when i came to Legends <3 :thumbsup:

Anyway... this is not about my sentimental life :P sorry...
back to paired fists...

This patch did a great improvement in paired fists warden by bringing Tiger Strike back to action! A couple of patches ago this was the main ability of paired fists warden. Then with the introduction of Clout and Combo strikes they ended up making Tiger Strike a co-main ability for paireds to apply the pain shock with 80% chance on targets! a few patches latter they gave hawk strike 100% chance to apply pain shock and Tiger Strike became useless thanks to its really low damage (even lower then 1 single hit from Clout Combo Strike) so i didnt even use Tiger Strike in the previous patch. This patch they did great by improving its damage! Tiger strike is now a great ability that gives slightly more damage then 1 hit of Clout and it is not affected by global coldown! this makes clout look like an almost instant 5x combo in stead of a 4x combo.

I like to test stuff myself so I've compared paired with caster and 2h in a FAIR comparision (same gear, same glyphs, same elixirs, same weapon quality (green from welle)) (i did NOT compare with hybrid build... i totally forgot about hybrid build so i cannot say a word about hybrid).

pve comparision:
DPS AVERAGE in "white golem" in Welle...
caster: 40k
2h: 45k
paired: 55k

DPS AVERAGE in WH(Battleground)...
caster: 25k
2h: 28k
paired: 32k

!- dont forget that i'm "specialized" in paired... maybe if someone who is "specialized" in playing 2h played my char during the tests the 2h dps data above would be a little higher! this is an important note! but i found 2h very ugly to play cause it is a lot affected by the global coldown (you barelly notice Global Coldown in paired).
!- dont forget that in pvp your damage depends on the oponent! so this is not a "very good" comparision!

survivability:
caster: 5stars
2h: 3stars
paired: 4stars

Q: why did i give 5stars to caster?
A: if you are caster you attack from a distance so you are not so vulnerable as melee...

Q: why did you give 3 stars to 2h and 4 stars to paired?
A: As a paired you can literally spam hawkstrike on your target (wich has 1.2 seconds coldown) and if the target has open wound on it it will heal you for a little more then renew lvl 3. this is an awasome heal that improves your survival. as a 2h the amount of heal you receive is EXACTLY the same but the coldown of this ability is more or less 2.3seconds (i'm not 100% sure if this is the exact value but i remember it was more then 2seconds).

Amazing vs?
-> Healer's
-> Summoner's
-> Mage's

Good vs?
-> Psi's
-> scout's
-> Bard

Bad vs?
-> Paladin's
-> Warrior's

Q: Why didnt you mention Engineer?
A: Engineer is a new class and i'm still trying to figure it out... i use to die vs engineers but i believe it is because i dont know them yet!


Alright! lets jump the intro part and go to my guide!


Paired fists "guide":

my current buils: (edited... old link was pointing to "new patch" talent tree's)

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!5!313.3.33..2.22.1..3...213....13..12.!ivzmi/MULCMD!gj/GHVC!gnaozl/WGLPWHB


i dont have that much extra rubies so the ones who have more rubies could get the other armor & crit reduction rubies for extra survivability in pvp (you already have a lot cause your Hawk Strike heals you a lot... just remember to spam it on a open wounded target in case you are under heavy damage).

this is a max dps build (good for both pvp and pve).

I used to use Bears blow but it is totally useless now so dont waste talents/rubies on it.
Chomp is pretty nice cause it gives pretty decent nice damage on pve and you also have the chance to aoe open wound...

keep in mind that keeping "Open Wound" on target is essencial to maximize effects of your other abilities (for example the duration of bee swarm, the poison damage of snake's blow and so many other effects)! with boar's blow lvl3 and the improved Flash Lightning Lv1 you wont get troubles in handling this task! It also allows "hawk Strike" to apply "pain shock" with a 100% chance allowing you to either wait 7 seconds for the debuff to pass and apply poison damage on target or to send your pet with Shred ability and apply a great burst poison damage!

Blood Shroud is a great "passive ability" but, dont forget that it only gets activated when your pet gets killed (not when you send you pet to rest yourself, unfortunatelly). anyway. This is a great boost! specially if you have Kanian racial (Pet's Aid) to recover him and keep maximized damage!


Call of the Wild is one of the abilities that ended up beeing dropped by the majority of wardens but it is a really nice ability! at rank2 you have 3 extra pets fighting on your side for 52seconds! It's true that each individual single hit is not "that great", but, once again you can't just look at "single hit's" individually! you need to look at the whole as one! 3 pets hitting for 52seconds gives a great amount of damage! in my opinion it worths it! specially when you fight a mage or a psi...

main ESSENCIAL combos:
(->ESSENCIAL<- i'm not going to reveal all of my secrets...)

if you have paladin/warrior as a reinc i advise on using "charge" spell!!!

main DPS combo:
charge -> boar's blow -> Great hunter -> grab! -> ?? -> hawk strike -> shred -> hawk strike -> clout -> tiger strike -> ?? -> clout -> tiger strike -> hawk strike -> shred -> hawk strike (...)

on -> ?? <- you have "micro seconds" where you can use other spells like "flash lightning", "grab!", "call of the wild", "snake's blow" (for slow), "bee swarm" (if it was already prepared), "potion of punisment", and so on (...)

main DPS pvp survival combo (scenario where you are under heavy damage):
charge -> boar's blow -> Great hunter -> grab! -> ?? -> hawk strike -> shred -> (*)hawk strike (as many times as necessary if you are receiving heavy damage... try to focus on a open wounded healer/summoner to deal damage, heal, and drain mana all at the same time... he will get out of mana pretty fast). The rest of the combo varies...
case 1-> if you get enought stable HP and shred didnt reset coldown yet -> clout -> tiger strike -> return to step (*)
case 2 -> if shred coldown is over -> shred -> return to step (*).
dont forget to give snakes blow once in a while to make the target slower.
if you are focusing an healer/summoner, dont use "rip"/"rip up!"/"bee swarm" untill you see them using the bubble.
you will need all of them for the "crushing combo"

if you are not taking heavy damage and you are fighting a healer/summy, force them to use bubble or "ghost run" first (sorry but I dont know the name of that summoner ghost thing)... then, when you see them starting the bubble/ghost thing, if you forgot to prepare bee swarm, press escape to untarget and prepare bee swarm... as soon as bubble is out, max out damage with the "crushing combo" (no way they survive):

"Crushing combo":
charge -> boar's blow -> grab! -> call of the wild -> potion of punishment -> aqua morte -> hawk strike -> shred -> hawk strike -> snake's blow -> bee swarm -> clout -> tiger strike -> ?? -> clout -> tiger strike -> rip -> clout -> tiger strike -> hawk strike -> shred > hawk strike -> clout -> tiger strike -> rip up! -> clout -> tiger strike...
if that healer is a pro and managed to survived, drain all his mana with hawk strike and he will die.... eventually :P

REMINDER! single hit made by paired warden might look low damage, BUT, dont forget that in the 2h, in 2 seconds you give 1 melee hit only (thanks to global coldown), as paired you can give at least 6 melee hits in that same period of time (4x clout combo (all given almost instantly after you use ability) + 1x from tiger strike (doesnt affect/get affected by global coldown so it is like clout was a 5x combo with higher damage on last hit) + hawkstrike) i didnt even know there was a global coldown till i went 2h because you simply dont notice it as a paired... its all really fast.

Remember, to be good you dont have to follow other people opinions/guides! forget all that your read and go try it yourself! take your own conclusions! Adapt to every situation! Evolve! Learn... Love!

i <3 paired fists warden!

co0led

This post has been edited 11 times, last edit by "co0led" (May 9th 2014, 2:47pm) with the following reason: had to change link for build cause it got all messed up cause ru calculator changed to new patch calculator. old link -> http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!313.3.33..2.22.1..3...213....13..12.!ivzmi/MULCMD!gj/GHVC!gnaozl/WGLPWHB new link -> http://us.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!5!313.3.33..2.22.1..3...213....13..12.!ivzmi/MULCMD!gj/GHVC!gnaozl/WGLPWHB


2

Wednesday, April 23rd 2014, 3:35am

i recommend adding:

"Amazing vs Engineers" (like every class)

the engineers you have died against must have outgeared you a LOT


also, the reason why paired fists is so effective seems to be because of the fact you cant miss any longer ^-^

3

Wednesday, April 23rd 2014, 8:53am

Resha

Intermediate

Posts: 266

Location: France

Occupation: Developper

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I agree with you that now paired fists builds are really efficient (I use them in my pvp build). But for a long time, at least from lvl 45 to 4.0.3 they were less efficient than caster builds and even more versus 2h hybrid build.
Most of wardens used to play caster, but they were not aware of how an hybrid build can be insame in terms of DPS. (For me a caster build is not a reference anymore, it's only good to take renew's rubis or balms, not for doing DPS).

Since the last overhaul (4.0.3), paired fists have been really up, especially the (new) paired fists hybrid build (which did not really exist before) which could be on par with 2h hybrid build.
Currently, the 2 best builds for DPS are 2h hybrid and paired fists hybrid builds
Your build is quite good as all-in-one build for pve and pvp. But if you can, I recommend you to try paired fists hybrid build in PVE, it really makes the difference :p

Anyway, good luck for your PMB ^^
Drood retraité !

4

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 4:20pm

Thanks for your reply!

It's not that they were less eficcient! the biggest difference is that they were really hard to play cause you had to had perfect timings on your combos! In terms of "efficiency" they were about the same! diferent but the same! it's a lot easyer to play as paired nowadays, specially because Clout combo strikes became an insta 4 hit combo and not a 1hit/second combo! it was horrible to have to wait 4 seconds for combo strike to be applied a few patches ago (you couldnt even use other spells meanwhile... thats why i ignored "combo strike" rubies on those patches) :P i admit that this was the lowest peak of paired fists! but still they were as "efficient" as they are now.

ps: thanks you for wishing good luck :D you too if you apply! ^^

5

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 4:57pm

Resha

Intermediate

Posts: 266

Location: France

Occupation: Developper

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I like the idea of playing without casting whirlwind, but in my opinion tiger strike doesn't deal enough damage. If we keep appart clout which remains the same in both hybrid and melee cycle; tiger + firebolt does lower damage than whirlwind + firebolt.

I really hope that tiger strike will be up in the next update.
Drood retraité !

6

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 5:15pm

I really hope that tiger strike will be up in the next update.

It's reworked, from what I just saw on the talent calculator here:

http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calcnew/#!5!111…...!a/A!a/A!a/A

It has rather big cooldown (26s with all the rubies) and it's used with some new Battle Instinct stacks mechanic.

7

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 10:54pm

WOW at those new tree's from 5.01 O.O

that's so awfull...
the rubies that makes hawk strike heal myself disapear and i need to waste rubies in useless bears blow to reach tiger strike on the next patch :( i hope it takes long to come... :(

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "co0led" (Apr 24th 2014, 11:00pm)


8

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 11:41pm

Resha

Intermediate

Posts: 266

Location: France

Occupation: Developper

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i hope it takes long to come... :(
How can you say that? :(
Aye enjoying playing with a pet completely drunk with 1-2 sec of latency since 5.0? Not me. And I have tested 5.0.1 warden on Ru servers, the pet is back to normal latency :love:
Drood retraité !

9

Friday, April 25th 2014, 1:54am

will pet be fixed???? a lot of times happens to me that i send my pet in "grab!" on a off-balance target and he takes a lot to apply the grab and make the open wound active... i was thinking it was me that was too fast maybe :P now i see it is a commom pet issue

good news is that they will bring "old bark shield" back (70% armor & resistances increase)... bad news (TERRIBLE) is that my lovely hawk strike will loose heal effect... :(

i dont understand the paired combo tooltip... i noticed that "monge path" or however the name is disapears (the rubies that give extra damage to paired fists attacks) but i dont understand if combo compensates this cause it talks about some "15% increase".. it looks like only 1handed keeps the melee damage increase rubies

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "co0led" (Apr 25th 2014, 2:04am)


10

Friday, April 25th 2014, 8:32am

i hope it takes long to come... :(
How can you say that? :(
Aye enjoying playing with a pet completely drunk with 1-2 sec of latency since 5.0? Not me. And I have tested 5.0.1 warden on Ru servers, the pet is back to normal latency :love:
@ Resha, so that 'delay' on pet skills will be removed?
will pet be fixed???? a lot of times happens to me that i send my pet in "grab!" on a off-balance target and he takes a lot to apply the grab and make the open wound active... i was thinking it was me that was too fast maybe :P now i see it is a commom pet issue

good news is that they will bring "old bark shield" back (70% armor & resistances increase)... bad news (TERRIBLE) is that my lovely hawk strike will loose heal effect... :(

i dont understand the paired combo tooltip... i noticed that "monge path" or however the name is disapears (the rubies that give extra damage to paired fists attacks) but i dont understand if combo compensates this cause it talks about some "15% increase".. it looks like only 1handed keeps the melee damage increase rubies
@ co0led, You say that the OP heal rubies from hawk strike get removed? .. That seems to be a huge nerf =/

11

Friday, April 25th 2014, 8:50am

Resha

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Posts: 266

Location: France

Occupation: Developper

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Yes I think they've corrected the pet latency, at least it's my feeling from my "poor lvl 14 warden in russia ^^
Ans yes, they removed rubis which increase 2h & paired fists damage (only remain those for 1h).

For sure, we'll lose hawk's heal, but in other hand we will have all skills to be a complete healer (and as far as I saw, we will be able to mix both DPS and heal in the same build)
Drood retraité !

12

Friday, April 25th 2014, 2:42pm

lets wait and see :P for now lets enjoy this nice patch!! ^^

i'm curious about the curse of the werewolf and the battle intuition & static charge new mechanics.. there are rubies to increase stacks of each each 8 seconds... i wonder if it is like paladin cannons

13

Friday, April 25th 2014, 6:08pm

Resha

Intermediate

Posts: 266

Location: France

Occupation: Developper

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It's not really for me too. Because when you use some melee attack it gives intuition stack, when you use some magic skills you have static charge. When you have one of them you cannot have the other from what I understand.
And according to Ru warden, it's quite random, you cannot choose one to another so if you play hybrid...
I hope I misunderstood something :(
Drood retraité !

14

Saturday, April 26th 2014, 2:02pm

that doesn't make sense... specially cause you have this pet rubies that increases damage by 1% for each intuition stack and 1% for each static charge stack... plus if you get all 6 rubies to generate stacks each 8 seconds then 3 of those rubies would be a waste :O

15

Tuesday, April 29th 2014, 2:54pm


The Kill Steal Power of paired fists warden :D

p.s: look at the amount of self healing produced

16

Tuesday, April 29th 2014, 3:03pm

that doesn't make sense... specially cause you have this pet rubies that increases damage by 1% for each intuition stack and 1% for each static charge stack... plus if you get all 6 rubies to generate stacks each 8 seconds then 3 of those rubies would be a waste :O


Precisely, they will indeed go to waste. The system doesn't prevent people from doing something stupid, you can take all "War of the Elements" rubies on a Mage or "Reanimator" and rank up Acid bolt on a Summoner.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Dala" (Apr 29th 2014, 3:09pm)


17

Friday, May 9th 2014, 2:50pm

had to edit cause ru talent calculator got updated to new patch talent tree's and my build apeared all messed up in there!

new link -> http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!5!313.3.3…!gnaozl/WGLPWHB
(I don't know why, but, i can't make main post link clickable... you need to copy and paste on browser).

18

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 3:07am

i just noticed that i forgot "Great Hunter" on my "crushing combo". Right in between "boars blow" and "Grab!".
I'm not changing main post until PMB results are announced (cause i dont want to get penalty :P) but i will change it after the results are announced in order to maybe help future paired wardens in a better way!

i will also talk a little about Potion of Punishment. it's an amazing potion that a lot of wardens "ignore". it is not instant cast, but it is extremely quick to use on target. it is an amazing potion to use on a summoner, healer, mage and psi. everytime they use an ablity for the next X seconds(there are rubies to change this value) for a max of 3 abilities they receive great damage and consume one stack... the total amount of damage they end up receiving is on pair with Shred damage on a target with "pain shock"! now imagine Potent elixir of Luck + 3*"Bestial Synergy" stacks + shred on "pain shock" target + Potion of Punishment. :D

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "co0led" (May 21st 2014, 2:32pm)


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