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1

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 4:36am

Returning player need some advice here

Greetings. I used to play this game back when the NA servers were Tensess & Nezeb but I deleted them and stopped playing for a substantial period of time due to personal reasons. I decided to play again a few days ago with a summoner character. I'm basically starting from scratch and I don't intend to spend a lot of money this time around. I plan on gaining stuff the "hard" way and I am well aware that this method will take a lot of time and patience. Nevertheless, I'm still willing to tough it out as I am not in a hurry to reach end game.

Basically, I would like to ask the advice of the more experienced (Summoner) players on here with regard to setting up one from scratch (No runes, gear or gold, whatsoever.) . I reckon that I should go with a build that is more or less self-reliant and capable of farming some gold at an acceptable pace (in the later levels, of course) without having to respec. several times.

I do not expect to compete with the "rich and powerful" players, let alone the "best" ones anytime soon, considering I that I have to start from the bottom. Rather, I would like to see some practical/workable skill & ruby grid setups that would be best suited for my situation. I'm guessing, this means something more PVE/AoE-farming oriented, no?

I would appreciate any constructive advice. Thank you.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "redcenterdot" (May 20th 2014, 4:50am)


2

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 6:47am

Posts: 47

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A later level farming, self-reliant build for farming or very basic astrals? You've kinda got 2 options.

Your first option is to go for a standard DPS build, and join a guild or make friends so you're farming with people, so you've always got a tank, stuff like that. The advantages of this build is that it does better damage, which means you're more useful and capable when you get up to doing astrals and stuff like that in endgame. Something like this is what I'd recommend: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!4!331...3…!oeqf/MKGRI!o/A

Your second option would be to go for a vamp build. This is more self-reliant than the acid DPS build, as it's got heals and is much more mobile. It's also miles better to level with (after about lvl 30), and in PvP. However, the damage output is less than the DPS build, so once you do get to endgame you wouldn't do as well in astrals or some of the harder farming areas. My recommendation for a build like that would be: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!4!132...3…cbjmghe/WNSKMAG

Or you can just use what most summies agree is the best levelling build, which is vamp + hellion. It's basically the same as the last build, but with a hellion pet instead of a lurker. You get less blood, because the lurker generates blood and the hellion doesn't, but you get your own mini tank while you're lvlling up to keep the mobs away from you, with good enough AoE DPS and heals to churn through everything fairly quickly.

Hope this helps! :)
It's always morning somewhere in the world.

3

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 8:29am

I say +1 to the vamp/hellion build for levelling, but watch out - the hellion isn't a full-on tank, and depending on your level it can be easy to out-dps him and pull mobs off him onto you.
Now f2p 60 Xadaganian summy with 60/60/60 tailor/weaponsmith/alchemist, bleah gear, 555/555 runes
Now p2p 28 Xadaganian avenger with 20 weaponsmith
I'm on an extended break from Allods at the moment, but I'm lurking here to keep up with what's happening. From the looks of things in 5.0.02, I'm better off where I am.

4

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 8:52am

@Preposterous

First off, thank you for taking the time to answer my question and for giving a detailed one as well as providing options.

Second, I have some follow up questions:

Wow, those builds look significantly different, so I'm thinking there must be a huge difference in terms of DPS output. It seems that I would have to choose between more damage or "lasting longer". I reckon, this suggests that choosing to commit to a specialization would be better than being a "Jack of all trades".

If I go the DPS route, I would have to assume a DPS role in a group. Unfortunately, I don't have the runes and gears to be effective and efficient in that role.

If I go the "Vamp build", I would have to assume a more supportive role and help try to keep the tank/healer alive. You also mentioned that it is miles better to level with and PvP (which is what I would probably be doing 90% of the time until I get to max level). My only concern is that will this be so "underpowered" in terms of DPS that I would not be able to do anything alone once I reach 50+?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the "Vamp build" would be much more viable for me, having no runes and gears to work with yet. Besides, I already took 1 level in Hellion, so might as well go all the way.

1) Are the other pets (Fiend and Lurker) capable of "tanking" damage for me as well? Or are pets strictly "one-trick-ponies"?
2) Is it prudent to have 2 pets?
3) Which rubies should I go for first?

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "redcenterdot" (May 20th 2014, 10:12am)


5

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 8:58am

@Steveread999

I would keep that in mind, thanks for the heads-up. I concur with your suggestion as it seems to fit my immediate situation.

6

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 12:34pm

dragonsvk8

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Posts: 272

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I guess you dont have greatness so I will try to give you some insight on specing without it. Let me make one thing clear first too. I always strongly advice using either full dps/full healer/full pvp build for endgame since hybrid builds sadly dont work there after the revamp we recieved. The only place where you should play some kind of hybrid of solo/dps/heal build is for PvP. With PvP build you can also easily achieve random mob farming for gold, but never try to modify it to a dps/heal PvE build since it will fail.

Since you are on leveling phase you have few options:

- play leveling/PvP build
- play leveling/PvP build till lvl 60 and respec to whatever you feel comfortable with
- level with dps/full healer build

Leveling/PvP build will be very nice for solo playing since it has quite alot of survival abilities and can be used for farming as you described you would like to do it with it. There are most likely 2 options to spec it, either with hellion or lurker as pet. Lurker gives you more blood income and that means more possibility to heal - more survival. Hellion brings a bit of damage and tankyness, but on higher lvl its threat becomes less powerful and you will overaggro it much more easily. I would recommend using Lurker cause of its better solo survivability and better versatility in pvp. I wouldnt use Cadaver in leveling phase unless you are outgeared (then the build doesent matter for lvling anyways) since that pet doesent bring much except bit more aoe.

Leveling/PvP

Leveling phase could be doable even with full dps/full healer build if you had experience in this game cause leveling isnt that hard..or you can respec to those after you max level if you can afford it but that wouldnt be very effective I guess. Once again I will repeat that playing hybrid offheal/dps/whatever build isnt profitable and only thing you will be able to do with it on full potential is solo farm mobs cause offheal and dps pretty much counter themselves and you will either lack important dps or healing abilities to make it good.

Full dps builds are kind of glass but not so cannon builds since summoner dps isnt as good in dps as for example mages/bards/warriors. You will be useful in astral/welebell/raids as dps with AoP buff but on the other side with low survival and dependance on healer. It will be harder to farm with if you have bad gear cause it doesent have much heal and defense but if you plan to just kill some random lvl 60 mobs it probably could do the job. You might want to take master summoner rubies later on if your pet dies more often. Never PvP with this :D

Full dps

And last option is to play as full healer. FH build will make your leveling slower since it has low dmg but you will most likely never die with it though. This build has very good survival and it is possible to farm with it if you like to play as safe as possible but with more time consumed with low gear. FH build is also very good in endgame and you will find groups easier since people always need healers for astral/welebell etc.
Can be also played in PvP if you wish so but summoner is so paper that the difference between PvP/FH build isnt any big and thats why I rather take full PvP build there instead (and not to mention that I hate to be fh :D). Again you might want master summoner rubies if you have some extra.

Full healer

Hope this helped
Back and rolling on 6.0!



My Youtube Channel
Summoner PvP guide 5.0.0

7

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 12:59pm

I'm basically starting from scratch and I don't intend to spend a lot of money this time around. I plan on gaining stuff the "hard" way and I am well aware that this method will take a lot of time and patience. Nevertheless, I'm still willing to tough it out as I am not in a hurry to reach end game.


Fundamental question is: "Little money or none at all?" Answer to it pretty much defines how you want to spec.

If you want to spend absolutely NO money at all and just get everything the hard way, you can forget about grouping right off the bat (groups will only get mad they have to drag someone with level 1-3 runes). In that case make a pure farming build, for absolutely best gold/hour efficiency and use crafted gear until you farm enough gold to get some basic runes (at least 5 imo). Yes it will suck in any group activity, but if you want to only use in-game gold to progress you're pretty much forced to do that until you get greatness.

8

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 1:05pm

Posts: 47

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What dracias said. While you're levelling, a standard vamp pvp build is awesome. Once you get to max lvl, you've got some decisions to make. Everyone else has covered this pretty thoroughly so I won't rehash their ground.
It's always morning somewhere in the world.

9

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 6:05pm

Thanks to all of you for the useful information. These have certainly helped answer my query. I hope other beginners benefit from this too.

10

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 6:22pm

Autopsyst

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Quoted

I don't intend to spend a lot of money this time around.


if you are ok for being cannon fodder for this season, you can try. (i.e. 1 year)
I don't like you, you don't like me
Its not likely that we'll ever be friends
Why pretend?

They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."

11

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 8:55pm

Quoted

I don't intend to spend a lot of money this time around.


if you are ok for being cannon fodder for this season, you can try. (i.e. 1 year)

Kindly elaborate, if you don't mind.

12

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 9:44pm

IAmGroot

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Quoted

I don't intend to spend a lot of money this time around.


if you are ok for being cannon fodder for this season, you can try. (i.e. 1 year)

Kindly elaborate, if you don't mind.

(S)He is basically saying that if you don't spend a reasonable amount of money "you will just be cannon fodder for a year."
Like...that you'll not be able to participate, reasonably well, in many aspects of the game. Especially PvP.
Many people have 7-8-9-10-11 runes. Some even have level 12 and 13 runes.

A full set of level 7 runes (from nothing) would take roughly...
[Using these parameters:
...Farming gold at 30 gold per minute
...Buying CCs at optimal price (minus sale) 450 crystals for 100 crystal chips = 4.5 crystals each
...Purchasing CCs with gold at a 58:1 crystal ratio
...You are required 6348 crystal chips
...6348 total chips * 4.5 crystals each * 58 gold each = 1,656,828 gold
...1,656,828 gold / 30 gold per minute = 55228 minutes
...55228 minutes / 60 minutes = 920.5 hours
...920.5 hours / 24 hours = 38.4 days

That is how much farming you need to do to get a full set of level 7 runes from nothing, with no cash.
There are MAAAAAAAAAAANY other items that add up to probably even MORE than a set of level 7 runes you need "to be competitive."

Therefore, count on about 80 DAYS of farming (24 HOUR PERIODS OF FARMING) to be 'at the low end of competitive.'

I'm not trying to scare you by any means...just giving realistic numbers I hope you can use!

Good luck and I'll see you in game hopefully. :)


13

Tuesday, May 20th 2014, 10:30pm

@Hclftw

To be honest, I appreciate your effort to provide a detailed albeit concise breakdown of the magnitude of the endeavor that I plan to pursue (The Red pill is tough to swallow though). I know it's not like before, when there were several low-mid tier guilds that one could join to find people to play with and interact. Now that the cap has been raised to level 60, it would make it all the more harder for newcomers/returning players to catch up and do anything worthwhile. I believe this makes it unappealing overall for new players to join the game. I just hope they implement a way for greenhorns to catch up faster without having to invest a hefty amount of valuable resources (time & money), but I digress.

I have a couple of questions though.

1) If I decide to spend cash to fund those 7-7-7 / 7-7-7 runes, how much would it cost me in $?
2) Would it suffice to spend just that and farm the rest of the necessities?
3) Which faction has the most low-mid levels?

14

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 2:14am

reeah19

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http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!4!332...3…cypmmnd/CXGARAG my idea of a lvling build, hellion is good until lvl 45-50 it won't lose agro, after is better to use lurker, but at that point making gold to respec won't be a problem

as gold making : 80 days of farming are more than enough, i started to play on Tenssess too, no cs at all and getting decent runes/pat 5 took me max 6 months of playing max 6 hrs per day so it's totally doable

i know that lvl 6 runes cost around 40-50 euros
Fireofdeath -70 - demonologist
Puffypuf - 65 - furball warden
Rensy - 65 - paladin
Akyrra - 70 - psionicist healer
Turquiose - 60 - bard
Springfull - 60 - mage
FoxBee - 31 warden

15

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 2:46am

IAmGroot

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@Hclftw

To be honest, I appreciate your effort to provide a detailed albeit concise breakdown of the magnitude of the endeavor...

I have a couple of questions though.

1) If I decide to spend cash to fund those 7-7-7 / 7-7-7 runes, how much would it cost me in $?
2) Would it suffice to spend just that and farm the rest of the necessities?
3) Which faction has the most low-mid levels?
No problem.

USING A 58:1 GEM SHARD RATIO FOR THIS ENTIRE MATH EXPEDITION BY THE WAY!!!!!

1) 28560 crystals.
...which means 2856 euros
...which means 392 USD
[Jesus that sounds like a lot...is that right?......]
{Yep...just checked the math again...it's right...]
2) That would certainly help a lot. Would it suffice? Yes, it will get you on your feet and make farming at 30g/minute or more a possibility, without those runes...you'll be farming at 20-22gpm. But it will not make you COMPETITIVE. You NEED to have other items that are available in game like...

Extra earring slot
Necessary
[Green]: 2,500g or 43 crystals or .43 euros or .59 USD
[Blue]: 15,000g or 259 crystals or 2.59 euros or 3.55 USD
Luxury
[Epic]: 150,000g or 2586 crystals or 35.42 USD
[Legend]: 1,350,000 or 23276 crystals or 318.88 USD

Trinket
Necessary
[Blue]: 2,500g or 43 crystals or .43 euros or .59 USD
[Epic]: 15,000g or 259 crystals or 2.59 euros or 3.55 USD
Luxury
[Legend]: 150,000g or 2586 crystals 25.86 euros or 35.42 USD
[Mythic]: 1,350,000g or 23276 crystals 232.76 euros or 318.88 USD

Carnifex Scrolls
Necessary
[Green]: 10,000g or 172 crystals or 1.72 euros or 2.36 USD
Luxury
[Blue]: 100,000g or 1724 crystals or 17.24 euros or 23.62 USD
[Epic]: 400,000g or 6897 crystals or 68.97 euros or 94.49 USD
[Legend]: 3,000,000g or 51724 crystals or 517.24 euros or 708.62 USD

Talent scrolls
Necessary
[Blue]: 7,500g or 129 crystals or 1.29 euros or 1.77 USD
Almost Necessary
[Epic]: 65,000g or 1121 crystals or 11.21 euros 15.36 USD
Luxury
[Legend]: 550,000g or 9483 crystals or 94.83 euros or 129.92 USD

Ruby scrolls
Necessary
[White]: 2,500g or 43 crystals or .43 euros or .59 USD
[Green]: 15,000g or 259 crystals or 2.59 euros or 3.55 USD
Luxury
[Blue]: 150,000g or 2586 crystals or 25.86 euros or 35.42 USD
[Epic]: 1,500,000g or 25862 crystals 258.62 euros or 354.31 USD
[Legend]: Impossible to get

Mount(s)
Necessary
[Cheapie slow/noncombat]: 5800g or 100 crystals or 1.00 euros or 1.37 USD
Really, Really Close To Necessary
[Cheaper - fast/combat]: 375,000g or 6465 crystals or 64.65 euros or 88.57 USD
Luxury
[Expensive - fast/combat]: 1,300,000g or 22413.79 crystals or 224.14 euros or 307.07 USD

Patronage level 5
Really, Really Close To Necessary...Like 95% Necessary
[Can be purchased in small amounts at a time...however full price:]
678,020g or 11690 crystals or 116.90 euros or 160.15 USD

Stat scrolls (offensive)
Necessary
[White]: 4,000g or 69 crystals or .69 euros or .95 USD
[Green]: 22,500g or 388 crystals or 3.88 euros or 5.32 USD
Luxury
[Blue]: 175,000g or 3017 crystals or 30.17 euros or 41.33 USD
[Epic]: 1,500,000g or 25862 crystals or 258.63 euros USD

Stat scrolls (defensive)
Necessary
[Green]: 2,500g or 43 crystals or .43 euros or .59 USD
[Blue]: 15,000g or 259 crystals or 2.59 euros or 3.55 USD
Luxury
[Epic]: 120,000g or 2586 crystals or 25.86 euros or 35.42 USD
[Legend]: 1,200,000g or 20690 crystals 206.90 euros or 283.45 USD

Mount scrolls
Necessary
[Green]: 400g or 7 crystals or .07 euros or .10 USD
[Blue]: 3,750g or 65 crystals or .65 euros or .89 USD
Luxury
[Epic]: 35,000g or 603 crystals or 6.03 euros or 8.26 USD
[Legend]: 175,000g or 3017 crystals or 30.17 euros or 41.33 USD

Ability to purchase elixirs and potions when necessary (like raids or high level astral)
Necessary
[Price per elixir]: 1160g or 20 crystals or .2 euros or .27 USD
Speaking of elixirs...you [most of the time] need two of them, one offensive and one defensive.
Potions run around 150-200g which is fairly cheap.

So I came up with a few totals...Unfortunately I cannot add in the recurring cost of constant elixirs and potions + upgrades...so there is much more of a gold cost than what I am showing you, I am just showing you the one time cost of CS items you'll never need to repurchase.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THE COST OF RUNES IS NOT INCLUDED IN ANY OF THE BELOW

Necessary Total (No Patronage Level 5):

Gold: 118,950
Crystals: 2051
Euros: 20.51
USD: 28.10
Hours Needed to Farm: 60.08
Days Needed to Farm: 2.75

Necessary Total (Includes Patronage Level 5):
Gold: 796,970
Crystals: 13741
Euros: 137.41
USD: 188.25
Hours Needed to Farm: 442.76
Days Needed to Farm: 18.45

Necessary Total + Medium Level Luxury Total:
Gold: 2,471,170
Crystals: 42606
Euros: 426.06
USD: 583.71
Hours Needed to Farm: 1372.87
Days Needed to Farm: 57.20

Absolute Top Tier Total:
Gold: 13,731,170
Crystals: 236744
Euros: 2367.44
USD: 3243.40
Hours Needed to Farm: 7628.43
Days Needed to Farm: 317.85
^ Absolute Top Tier: Does not include EX: green/blue/epic ear slot, it will only include legend if it's an item like that.

Also...sorry I probably forgot something to add in here.

Best of luck!

P.S. I've been doing this for damn near close to 2 hours...so I'm really tired. Sorry if I forgot anything that should have been added in! If someone notices something...please tell me and I'll update the list(s)!

Ah-ha! I already realized I totally forgot to answer question number 3!
3) I have no idea. :)

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Hclftw" (May 21st 2014, 3:01am)


16

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 2:51am

Posts: 47

Location: Straya

Occupation: Valar Morghulis

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my god those are scary numbers when you look at them like that.
It's always morning somewhere in the world.

17

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 3:57am

@Hclftw

180 -200 $ is acceptable, I guess.

583 $ - No problem if you had the right job.

3244 $? OH MAAAAAYYYNNN... Might as well buy a used car lol. But seriously, that's like 2-3 months rent.

Great job doing the math man. I really think this info should be sticky'd or something. Too useful to get deleted. Might as well snip it/copy-paste just to be safe.

18

Wednesday, May 21st 2014, 11:05am

dragonsvk8

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Posts: 272

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Occupation: Fap, PvP

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http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!4!332...3…cypmmnd/CXGARAG my idea of a lvling build, hellion is good until lvl 45-50 it won't lose agro, after is better to use lurker, but at that point making gold to respec won't be a problem

as gold making : 80 days of farming are more than enough, i started to play on Tenssess too, no cs at all and getting decent runes/pat 5 took me max 6 months of playing max 6 hrs per day so it's totally doable

i know that lvl 6 runes cost around 40-50 euros
kinda similiar to what I meant with that hellion acid build

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc#!4!232...33…knnomnd/GRQCHGF

but ye I would stick with lurker still I guess

edit: oh I didnt write it there :d was writing about acid/hellion leveling build but then deleted it coz found it quite bad to even mention
Back and rolling on 6.0!



My Youtube Channel
Summoner PvP guide 5.0.0

19

Friday, May 23rd 2014, 10:50pm

reeah19

Intermediate

Posts: 334

Location: Bucharest

Occupation: hydropower engineer

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is bad as damage but if he/she starts with lvl 1 runes will need hellion for backup
Fireofdeath -70 - demonologist
Puffypuf - 65 - furball warden
Rensy - 65 - paladin
Akyrra - 70 - psionicist healer
Turquiose - 60 - bard
Springfull - 60 - mage
FoxBee - 31 warden

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